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Abdelouadoud El Omrani
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Последнее сообщение November 20, 2009 12:42 PM

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Either don't attempt it, or carry it through to the endOvid
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Создано:
January 5, 2009 7:18 PM
Сообщение 166201 — ответ на №166197
Nikita Kobrin
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На форумах с: November 29, 2002
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RE: Stop weapon sales.

Originally written by Harry Bornemann on January 6, 2009 1:30 AM

Well, I am getting angry at the continuous crimes commited by Israel, but when I heard some Neo-Nazis sing Nazi songs and similar Liedgut in East Berlin on New Year's Eve, I was very tempted to sing Hava Nagila...

Well Harry,

You can find one of its interpretations HERE...

NK


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Создано:
January 6, 2009 12:02 AM
Сообщение 166204 — ответ на №166201
Harry Bornemann
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На форумах с: December 31, 2002
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RE: Stop weapon sales.
Originally written by Nikita Kobrin on January 6, 2009 1:18 AM
Originally written by Harry Bornemann on January 6, 2009 1:30 AM
Well, I am getting angry at the continuous crimes commited by Israel, but when I heard some Neo-Nazis sing Nazi songs and similar Liedgut in East Berlin on New Year's Eve, I was very tempted to sing Hava Nagila...
You can find one of its interpretations HERE...
It does have style, but it does not sound like "Let's rejoice"...

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Создано:
January 6, 2009 3:11 AM
Сообщение 166208 — ответ на №166133
Abdelouadoud El Omrani
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz on January 5, 2009 4:48 PM


But Ouadoud, please don't forget the Christians. They are as much Palestinians as the Muslims and suffering at least as much from the occupation. I just got this forwarded by a friend. And I had seen it on al-Jazeerah the same day it took place. I wished I was there too. It was beautiful, because they were just Palestinians, united for a fair cause, not Muslims or Christians.

 http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50370&hd=&size=1&l=e

Church of Nativity priest: 2,000 years after Christ Palestinians crucified everyday

    

 


Chere Ann-Christine,

You know very well that I agree with you 100% not 99. Everyone heard Al-Ab Atallah talking in the name of all Palestinian churches and imploring the Pope and all the churches in the wrld to condemn Israel genocide and war crimes on Aljazeera. You have surely noted that his words are repeatedly broadcast by Aljazeera. (no real reaction BTW).

But I was tackling the issue on a wider horizon. I was condemning a culture, a mentality that is taught to children and instilled as a poison in People's brains. But I also know as Chani pointed out that many people have enough knowledge and culture to find out by themselves the truth away from mainstream media.

I was talking exactly about this, that Jennifer Loewenstein expresses better than me, and that I quote from the article you posted:

"Strip away the clichés and the vacuous newspeak blaring out across the servile media and its pathetic corps of voluntary state servants in the Western world and what you will find is the naked desire for hegemony; for power over the weak and dominion over the world’s wealth. Worse yet you will find that the selfishness, the hatred and indifference, the racism and bigotry, the egotism and hedonism that we try so hard to cover up with our sophisticated jargon, our refined academic theories and models actually help to guide our basest and ugliest desires. The callousness with which we in indulge in them all are endemic to our very culture; thriving here like flies on a corpse. "

Salaam ya Okhti, Salaam Chani

Ouadoud


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Создано:
January 6, 2009 3:29 AM
Сообщение 166210 — ответ на №166197
Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz
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На форумах с: September 23, 2004
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RE: Stop weapon sales.
Originally written by Harry Bornemann on January 6, 2009 12:30 AM

Originally written by Becky Barath on January 5, 2009 11:37 PM
Originally written by Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz on January 5, 2009 4:42 PM
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on January 5, 2009 10:29 PM
Originally written by Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz on January 5, 2009 10:16 PM
If Jacek is a zionist, then I am one too.
The fact that I have always liked your company, Ann-Christine, is the best proof of it. Now that the two of us have been exposed, what are we going to do, though???

Jacek

Oh, Gosh! I don't know what to do with myself! We agreed on being very careful, and here I am, unveiling the truth about us, just like this. Will you please forgive me?


Count me in
Well, I am getting angry at the continuous crimes commited by Israel, but when I heard some Neo-Nazis sing Nazi songs and similar Liedgut in East Berlin on New Year's Eve, I was very tempted to sing Hava Nagila...


I agree with you, Harry, that yielding a stupidity with another stupidity is completely stupid. The makers of such acts are only nourishing the hatred on each sides. It doesn't serve any cause and it's only doing harm.

Ann-Christine

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Создано:
January 6, 2009 3:42 AM
Сообщение 166211 — ответ на №166208
Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz
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На форумах с: September 23, 2004
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on January 6, 2009 9:11 AM

Originally written by Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz on January 5, 2009 4:48 PM


But Ouadoud, please don't forget the Christians. They are as much Palestinians as the Muslims and suffering at least as much from the occupation. I just got this forwarded by a friend. And I had seen it on al-Jazeerah the same day it took place. I wished I was there too. It was beautiful, because they were just Palestinians, united for a fair cause, not Muslims or Christians.

 http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50370&hd=&size=1&l=e

Church of Nativity priest: 2,000 years after Christ Palestinians crucified everyday

    

 


Chere Ann-Christine,

You know very well that I agree with you 100% not 99. Everyone heard Al-Ab Atallah talking in the name of all Palestinian churches and imploring the Pope and all the churches in the wrld to condemn Israel genocide and war crimes on Aljazeera. You have surely noted that his words are repeatedly broadcast by Aljazeera. (no real reaction BTW).

But I was tackling the issue on a wider horizon. I was condemning a culture, a mentality that is taught to children and instilled as a poison in People's brains. But I also know as Chani pointed out that many people have enough knowledge and culture to find out by themselves the truth away from mainstream media.

I was talking exactly about this, that Jennifer Loewenstein expresses better than me, and that I quote from the article you posted:

"Strip away the clichés and the vacuous newspeak blaring out across the servile media and its pathetic corps of voluntary state servants in the Western world and what you will find is the naked desire for hegemony; for power over the weak and dominion over the world’s wealth. Worse yet you will find that the selfishness, the hatred and indifference, the racism and bigotry, the egotism and hedonism that we try so hard to cover up with our sophisticated jargon, our refined academic theories and models actually help to guide our basest and ugliest desires. The callousness with which we in indulge in them all are endemic to our very culture; thriving here like flies on a corpse. "

Salaam ya Okhti, Salaam Chani



Na'am ya Akhi. Of course I know, you have said it so many times here and in other threads. Like you must have read me saying it many times as well. My culture and heritage are Muslims. My mother tongue is Arabic. Add to that my very personal point of view, that I'm a Muslim at heart, and I'm proud of being one.

And today, like always in Palestine, we're Palestinians, united to shout out loud our anger over what is happening to our sisters, brothers and children in Gaza. The unity of the Palestinians is the key to many problems, like our national poet, who passed away in August last year, Mahmoud Darwich, always used to say. And we should enhance that unity and work hard to obtain it, in order to achieve our dream of a free and democratic Palestine. Say Inshaa Allah.

Ann-Christine


[Отредактировано Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz, January 6, 2009 3:49 AM]

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Создано:
January 6, 2009 3:43 AM
Сообщение 166212 — ответ на №103347
Chani D
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

For those of you who understand French, this article of the Israeli poet Jonathan Geffen found in the Courrier international today:

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article.asp?obj_id=93115

 


Courrier international - 5 janv. 2009
Article
GAZA - Les dirigeants israéliens n'ont pas de plomb dans la tête
Pour le poète israélien Jonathan Geffen, qui fait paraître ce texte dans la presse conservatrice, l'offensive de l'armée israélienne est insensée. Et le prix à payer risque d'être très lourd.
De retour de New York le 26 décembre, je ne savais pas quel Israël j'allais retrouver. Sur la route de Lod à Tel-Aviv, alors que mes yeux fixaient le ciel, j'avais bien remarqué des hélicoptères Apache qui s'envolaient pour le Sud. Malgré cela, je ne me rendais pas encore compte dans quel pays j'étais revenu. Et, comme lors de chaque retour, j'ai à peine déposé ma valise que je me suis effondré dans mon lit. Lorsque je me suis réveillé le lendemain à 17 heures, j'ai entendu sur mon répondeur trois messages qui me demandaient de participer à une manifestation de protestation à Tel-Aviv et de signer une pétition contre la guerre. Quelle guerre ? Pourquoi ne m'avait-on rien dit ? Lorsqu'on subit le décalage horaire, il y a quelque chose qui va bien au-delà de la simple fatigue, quelque chose de mystérieux qui vient inexorablement brouiller l'espace et le temps. Mais j'ai été profondément heurté de me rendre compte que, pendant que je dormais, la guerre contre laquelle je suis censé me mobiliser venait précisément d'éclater.

Ainsi, à l'occasion des fêtes de Hanouka, nous avons inventé un nouveau spectacle pour le plus grand plaisir des enfants, spécialement pour ceux de Gaza : le Festigaza, un spectacle de pyrotechnie qui a l'avantage de bénéficier du concours extraordinaire de l'aviation israélienne, le tout diffusé vingt-quatre heures sur vingt-quatre. Et notre peuple tout entier s'est à nouveau mis à communier dans la violence festive, en scandant des incantations telles que "Opération justifiée" et "Tsahal a lavé l'affront". Mais de quelle justice et de quel honneur parle-t-on ? Certes, l'Etat a le devoir de protéger ses citoyens. Mais cette guerre insensée n'éliminera jamais le Hamas. Au contraire, elle rendra la population de Gaza davantage sensible aux extrémistes. Une fois de plus, nous faisons la seule chose que nous semblons savoir faire : un massacre de masse qui finit toujours par être perçu comme une sorte de génocide (pardonnez-moi l'expression), une opération de destruction et de dévastation qui nous amène, encore et toujours, plus de dévastation et de destruction. Dès lors que nos dirigeants n'ont ni programme politique ni plan militaire, et qu'ils n'ont même pas la finesse d'envisager des incursions ponctuelles de commandos, ils préfèrent envoyer nos "hurleurs d'acier" [les avions de chasse] rayer de la carte toute une ville sans se soucier ni des morts innocents, ni des mères prostrées dans les tunnels mitraillés, ni de leurs enfants qui ne savent plus trop de qui ils doivent avoir le plus peur – du Hamas ou de nos forces armées.

"Comme nous avions cette bombe, il fallait bien que nous l'utilisions", avait déclaré le président Truman après le largage de la bombe atomique sur Hiroshima. Puisque nous ne manquons pas de munitions, nous utiliserons toute notre puissance de feu contre un adversaire qui ne nous arrive pas à la cheville. "A Gaza, il n'y a plus assez de place pour les cimetières", a expliqué un commentateur israélien. Mais comme il nous reste encore des tonnes de missiles et qu'il faut bien en faire quelque chose, bombardons les cimetières ! Et gardons-nous de diffuser la moindre image du massacre, vu que les spectateurs sont de grands sensibles. Et envoyons des médicaments aux Palestiniens avant de bombarder leurs stocks de médicaments. En attendant, ceux qui osent s'exprimer contre le crime sont à nouveau considérés comme des traîtres. Je suis curieux de savoir si Amos Oz et A.B. Yehoshua [deux consciences de gauche qui soutiennent l'offensive israélienne] ont déjà publié un énième manifeste humaniste dans les pages du Ha'Aretz ou s'ils sont seulement en train d'y travailler. Cela dit, depuis quand un écrivain est-il écouté dans ce pays ?

A cet égard, quoi de plus troublant que de découvrir que le nom du pogrom que nous sommes en train de commettre est tiré d'un poème de Bialik* [Plomb durci], le "poète des pogroms" ? Honte sur vous, militaires, si, après ma mort, vous décidiez de baptiser l'une de vos opérations en vous inspirant d'un de mes poèmes. En toute modestie, je viens de modifier mon testament pour que mes ayants droit (ma compagne, mes parents et mes enfants) puissent légalement intervenir contre quiconque aurait l'idée saugrenue de baptiser la prochaine opération israélienne "Jardin fermé" ou "Violettes". Cela dit – qui sait ? –, peut-être que d'ici là, vous aurez été cités à comparaître devant un tribunal international pour crimes de guerre et contre l'humanité.


* Lancée lors de la fête juive de Hanouka, l'offensive israélienne a été baptisée d'après une comptine enfantine du poète Haïm Nahman Bialik (1873-1934), En l'honneur de Hanoukka, où il est question d'une toupie en plomb durci. Bialik doit sa notoriété à son poème La Ville du massacre, composé après un pogrom qui avait entraîné la mort de quarante-neuf Juifs en 1903, en Russie.
Jonathan Geffen
Maariv



[Отредактировано Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz, January 6, 2009 4:27 AM]

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Создано:
January 6, 2009 5:31 AM
Сообщение 166218 — ответ на №166190
Jacek K.
Мастер TC
Родной язык: Polish
На форумах с: February 18, 2003
Местонахождение: Poland
 
RE: Stop weapon sales.
Originally written by Becky Barath on January 5, 2009 11:37 PM

Originally written by Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz on January 5, 2009 10:16 PM

If Jacek is a zionist, then I am one too.

Count me in

We will, provided you re-invite John K. whose last words about "pathological Jew-hatred" flourishing on TC were deleted on his departure.

The more the merrier as the 150th anniversary of the publication of Darwin's “On The Origin of Species” approaches!

As one psychologist put it, evolution stops at the neck. (Post #166074)

* * *

An odd opinion of Anne Applebaum (privately the wife of the Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Radek Sikorski):

Pointless Peace Proposals

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a war, and it won't be over until someone wins.

...Until then, there is no point in bemoaning the passivity of the Bush administration, the silence of Barack Obama, the powerlessness of Arab leaders, or the weakness of Europe as so many, predictably, have begun to do. It's no outsider's "fault" that the fighting continues, and it merely obscures the real issues when we pretend otherwise. Diplomats might be able to slow its progress, but this war won't be over until someone has won it. http://www.slate.com/id/2207917/

 

But... Israel did win the war in 1967. And?

Jacek


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Создано:
January 6, 2009 11:05 AM
Сообщение 166252 — ответ на №166094
Scott Rasmussen
Родной язык: English
На форумах с: April 28, 2004
Местонахождение: United States
 
RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Shiong-Fong Lew on January 5, 2009 4:31 AM

Originally written by Scott Rasmussen on January 5, 2009 1:57 AM
Anyway, I'm tired of communist-front International ANSWER running amok here in San Francisco, protesting outside my building (which houses the Israeli consulate...) and spraying "Free Palestine" graffiti all over the financial district.  What a bunch of savages.  But they're sure to be back on Monday, with the SFPD in tow (what is all that extra policing costing the taxpayer?!).

 

I suppose with Abbas due on Monday in New York to put a personal face into the appeal for a ceasefire, the U.S. would have to make a stand whether to let peace-dove Abbas down and risk a detrioration of ground support for Abbas and an increase in global security costs at a time of economic downturn. No?

 

Well, then maybe Mr. Abbas will run into this model citizen (legal resident; illegal alien) during his visit.  Given the chap's virulent message and execrable spelling, I wonder whether he might be a TC member.

Or is OJ Simpson the object of his wrath...?



[Отредактировано Scott Rasmussen, January 6, 2009 11:10 AM]

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Создано:
January 6, 2009 11:13 AM
Сообщение 166253 — ответ на №166252
Jacek K.
Мастер TC
Родной язык: Polish
На форумах с: February 18, 2003
Местонахождение: Poland
 
RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Scott Rasmussen on January 6, 2009 5:05 PM

Given the chap's virulent message and execrable spelling, I wonder whether he might be a TC member.

No longer: (removed)


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Создано:
January 6, 2009 11:33 AM
Сообщение 166255 — ответ на №166208
Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on January 6, 2009 3:11 AM

 I was condemning a culture, a mentality that is taught to children and instilled as a poison in People's brains. But I also know as Chani pointed out that many people have enough knowledge and culture to find out by themselves the truth away from mainstream media.

Salaam ya Okhti, Salaam Chani

Ouadoud

I agree with you Ouadoud that truth is very important, but for me the only solution to the Palestinian-Israeli problem is to overcome the hatred on both sides, not so much who is right and who is wrong. No one is right in war, unless it is pure defense.

 



[Отредактировано Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov, January 6, 2009 11:36 AM]

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