Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Derek Thornton on December 12, 2008 1:51 PM So if the banks can do it, why shouldn't an agency being run on a shoestring sit on payments to earn a little interest for 3 months if they can?
Derek
Why?
Because: 1) as the saying goes, "You don't get nothing for nothing, not even a meal"... and not even a shoestring;
2) agencies run on a shoestring should be selling haberdashery, preferably made in some low-cost country (gross benefit margin from 300% on and upwards, so there's no need to keep money on a savings account for a meager 3.5% or even 6.0% interest rate).
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 5, 2009 1:44 PM]
Mother tongue: English Joined: April 30, 2007 Location: Germany
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Laurent J. Krauland on January 5, 2009 6:39 PM ... agencies run on a shoestring should be selling haberdashery, preferably made in some low-cost country (gross benefit margin from 300% on and upwards, so there's no need to keep money on a savings account for a meager 3.5% or even 6.0% interest rate).
That was ages ago and a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I wrote that and even General Motors has cashflow problems. I wonder how often translation agency owners have to decide at the end of the month whether to pay their employees or their freelance translators or pay the heating bill?
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 5, 2009 8:05 PM I wonder how often translation agency owners have to decide at the end of the month whether to pay their employees or their freelance translators or pay the heating bill?
Derek
French law at least is very clear about that: salaries and personnel issues are priority A1. And to continue in my (admittedly cynical) mood, the rest depends upon which bailliff will be the first to knock at their door and to threat brimstone and fire upon them...
Sad to say, but as this thread deals with direct job offers made through TC's private message system to potential "sitting ducks" (aka "newbies") by already blocked/removed agencies, I have absolutely no pity for their problems.
A famous example of this is a French outsourcer who, according to their own statements, buys new PC's, new software and the like almost every year and has never any money left to pay their outsourcees. This agency owes me some 90 euros ex VAT since July 2005 (name and details upon request ). Misery loves company... this is certainly why I am never forgotten on Christmas or Easter, as I generally receive an e-mail with milk & honey thoughts, together with Coué-sounding sentences about the wonderful realm of Translation World.
And - have you noticed just how many agencies ask for payment upon invoice reception in their GT&C? Are all end clients that bad that they just ignore the outstanding amounts due to translation agencies and their payment deadlines? And how about translation agency owners just following the same rules as would-be freelance translators and keeping their day jobs?
Gleiches 'Recht' für Alle!
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 5, 2009 2:36 PM]
Mother tongue: English Joined: April 30, 2007 Location: Germany
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Dodo Kaipdodo on January 5, 2009 7:27 PM To run an agency, you have to have money to do that. To be a decent translator, you have to have money of your own.
How about working for this outfit?
"low budget übersetzungen" geht bald auf den deutschen Markt und sucht hierfür noch Studenten oder Berufsanfänger, die günstig übersetzen. Interessenten können ihren Lebenslauf an infode@lowbudgettranslations.com schicken Website : www.lowbudgetvertalingen.nl"
That is the first time I have seen an agency explicitly stating that it is hiring students or beginners who do cheap translations (they call them "semi-professional" translators on their website). Is this a sign of the times or are conditions about to get even tougher? I can't wait to find out how much they pay!
They are apparently charging their customers 11 eurocents/word for EN, DE, FR, IT and ES and claim that they charge less than half of what other agencies charge for DA, SV, NO and PT so those students are not going to get much, I wonder how long that have to wait to get paid?
("Voor de gangbare talen zoals Engels, Duits, Frans, Italiaans en Spaans is het woordtarief €0,11. Voor andere talen zoals Deens, Zweeds, Noors of Portugees rekenen wij vaak minder dan de helft van wat andere vertaalbureaus vragen.")
They claim to have offices in Amsterdam, Madrid, Vienna, Helsinki, London, New York and Paris.
Maybe the day is getting closer when we will read:
"lowbudget zahnbehandlungen" will soon be active on the German market and is looking for students or beginners who do cheap dental work. If you are interested, send your CV to infode@lowbudgetdentalwork.com."
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 5, 2009 9:46 PM How about working for this outfit?
They are apparently charging their customers 11 eurocents/word for EN, DE, FR, IT and ES and claim that they charge less than half of what other agencies charge for DA, SV, NO and PT so those students are not going to get much, I wonder how long that have to wait to get paid?
Derek
Well actually, and except for the greed of LBV's founders, there's absolutely no need for any kind of new outfit, as existing agencies already offer these low-budget rates to end clients.
These are IMO people who have learned some business model at the university and now want to implement it (cf. my post in the French forum: Les plateformes de traduction).
It reminds me strongly of a hardware manufacturing company which sole "added value" consisted in having their brand name engraved on hinges, door handles etc. that were made in China.
They finally closed their French wholesale subsidiary - because it was too expensive - and now seem to concentrate their efforts on high-priced roof window systems 'made in (Western) Europe'...
I just wonder how many LBV's are currently able to make and to stand the paradigmal shift from low-cost translations to quality translation services... whatever that means! And I would like to know how much benefit they will make by the end of 2009 - that is, how many end clients are ready to pay for crap which is advertised as such... if they are not blacklisted or bankrupt before that.
You always pay the price and, as we put it in France (and certainly in other countries): "Cheap products are always expensive".
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 5, 2009 4:38 PM]
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 5, 2009 3:46 PM How about working for this outfit?
Why not, if they pay according to the quality?
That is the first time I have seen an agency explicitly stating that it is hiring students or beginners who do cheap translations (they call them "semi-professional" translators on their website).
On second thoughts, no. Students and beginners are not necessarily semi-professional. I was a student when I made my first full book and what I got was not what was on the contract, it was almost two times as much, because the publisher liked the translation. I didn`t have to ask; back then, quality used to mean something.
Is this a sign of the times or are conditions about to get even tougher?
Of the times, I`m afraid. Now they seem to want discounts for good translations...
Maybe the day is getting closer when we will read:"lowbudget zahnbehandlungen" will soon be active on the German market and is looking for students or beginners who do cheap dental work. If you are interested, send your CV to infode@lowbudgetdentalwork.com."
Would you buy the cheap dental work? As a patient, I mean?
Elite Veteran Mother tongue: English Posts: 845 Joined: March 9, 2008 Location: United Kingdom
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Laurent J. Krauland on January 5, 2009 1:39 PM
Originally written by Derek Thornton on December 12, 2008 1:51 PM So if the banks can do it, why shouldn't an agency being run on a shoestring sit on payments to earn a little interest for 3 months if they can?
Derek
Why?
Because: 1) as the saying goes, "You don't get nothing for nothing, not even a meal"... and not even a shoestring;
2) agencies run on a shoestring should be selling haberdashery, preferably made in some low-cost country (gross benefit margin from 300% on and upwards, so there's no need to keep money on a savings account for a meager 3.5% or even 6.0% interest rate).
Laurent K.
Exactly, if the agency aren't smart enough to make sure they have clients who pay on time, why should their contractors suffer? If their budget does not allow for them to pay both their employees and contractors, they are either very new or very hopeless. In the first case, they need to wake up and manage their cashflow properly, in the second case, a few shiny red letters and a friendly bailiff should do the trick.
I do think that anyone who outsources a job should realise this simple truth: when you make a contract with a service provider their right to payment is separate to the arrival of payment from your client unless otherwise agreed in advance. In other words, follow the advice given to freelancers and have some contingency reserves on standby because whether your client pays or not you will need to cough up.
Similarly, I think both freelancers and agencies need to learn that clients who offer poor rates tend to also be rubbish at paying anything. Much better to sit and wait for a proper job with decent rates than to clutch at the $0.01 per word brigade and wonder why, three months later you haven't seen a penny.
Mother tongue: French Joined: October 31, 2004 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Sign of the times? (this is a job posted today) for En/Fr (that's actually received 10 'bids' already
[During this recession times the price we can offer is 0.02 USD. ...Required software: PowerPoint. Job place: Delhi, Delhi, India]
Can't check... but we could probably bet that their "pre-recession times" rates weren't much higher! How can you even pay for your Trados at 1.5 eurocent/word, much less pay the rent??
Re. the topic of this thread: I've never had any problem payments with direct clients in more than 2 decades (only with a few colleagues and agencies long since deleted out of my address book). But then, I never look for and would never accept to work for direct clients at the end of the world via translation web sites - that's just asking for it (and this is true also for outsourcing agencies/ intermediaries, e.g. the offer posted above)...
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
As per agencies and direct job offers, and to go on with what I said before - by accepting either low rates, or impossible delivery dates, or long long payment deadlines, or a combination of those three, or... etc., we just feed the hollow and greedy green-eyed monster of non-payment, recession and the like!
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 6, 2009 11:21 AM]
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). Misery loves company... this is certainly why I am never forgotten on Christmas or Easter, as I generally receive an e-mail with milk & honey thoughts, together with Coué-sounding sentences about the wonderful realm of Translation World. 
India]
As per agencies and direct job offers, and to go on with what I said before - by accepting either low rates, or impossible delivery dates, or long long payment deadlines, or a combination of those three, or... etc., we just feed the hollow and greedy green-eyed monster of non-payment, recession and the like!