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Dernière intervention November 25, 2009 12:56 PM

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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 9:24 AM
Message n°162868— en réponse au n°103347
Maxi Schwarz-Bastami
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Messages: 7857
Membre depuis: September 26, 2003
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

The collective "we" is understood by anyone literate in English as not applying to every single person

The collective "we in the West" is understood by anyone literate in English as designating a group comprising those who are in the West, and generally, all of us, due to that modifier.  I do not want to be included in your group, and I am "in the West" and "of the West" if you will.

I prefer "a number of people in the West" ... etc.

Maxi



[Modifié par Maxi Schwarz-Bastami - November 24, 2008 9:30 AM]

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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 12:08 PM
Message n°162902— en réponse au n°162868
Scott Rasmussen
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Langue maternelle: English
Membre depuis: April 28, 2004
Lieu: United States
 
RE: A Palestinian Point of View

Just so we're clear...the collective first-person (a term of art) is often employed for reasons of politeness, and would be understood in its non-literal sense by any literate English-speaker—assuming, naturally, that said speaker is also comfortable in the social circles where such phrasing is employed.

I learned long ago that offering basic English tutorials to this group isn't productive, so that's my last word on the matter.  Readers of this thread are free to judge whose command of English is better.

I'd still appreciate it if Abdallah would try to answer my question, his time and interest permitting.

 



[Modifié par Scott Rasmussen - November 24, 2008 12:10 PM]

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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 12:21 PM
Message n°162905— en réponse au n°103347
Maxi Schwarz-Bastami
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

There is a modifier to that collective.  And if you are having difficulty teaching English, maybe it's because you are among peers who also have some expertise in the matter.

Maxi


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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 12:38 PM
Message n°162911— en réponse au n°162902
Jacek K.
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Scott Rasmussen on November 24, 2008 6:08 PM

...the collective first-person...

Also known as pluralis majestatis in my circles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_plural)


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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 12:59 PM
Message n°162912— en réponse au n°103347
Maxi Schwarz-Bastami
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

I'd still appreciate it if Abdallah would try to answer my question, his time and interest permitting.

Do you mean Abdelouadoud?


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November 24, 2008 1:15 PM
Message n°162914— en réponse au n°162911
Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
An acquaintance of mine has just added this to his blog :

Giving a voice to Gaza.

The other night, a friend of mine spoke with one of his journalist contacts currently working in the besieged Gaza Strip. He commented to her that he was sitting comfortably sipping on a glass of wine in Ramallah. She replied by saying “well, we’re busy giving voices to the voiceless.”

For the past two weeks, Israel has imposed an international media blackout on news from Gaza, barring journalists from entering the tightly controlled territory. The military has attempted to justify this by citing recent incidents of rocket fire into Israel, in violation of a five-month ceasefire agreement. The only people who are allowed to enter and leave are international aid workers and Palestinian patients seeking medical treatment.

Despite the restrictions, several journalists have managed to stay in Gaza and report the humanitarian catastrophe that has arisen from the tightening of Israel’s ten-month blockade. They have the dutiful and momentous task of showing the world exactly what the Israeli military is trying to hide: newborns whose life-support machines are affected by persistent blackouts, bread-making factories that are unable to operate due to lack of flour and electricity, empty warehouses at United Nations food distribution centers, families down to their last rations. The goal is to hide the haunting images of this scandalous policy of collective punishment while still inflicting it upon the population.

Israel’s actions have been condemned by the United Nations, Oxfam, Amnesty International, and the European Union. The Foreign Press Association released an official statement denouncing the curtailing of the right of journalists to enter Gaza as “a serious violation of press freedom.”

While the attacks by Palestinian militants are utterly deplorable, there is no way that the government of Israel can justify this choking of the entire population of Gaza, 60 percent of whom are children. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, a British commentator for The Independent, gave the following analysis: “It is a siege without mercy, locking people into a prison, most of whom have not been convicted of any crime except that of being Palestinian.”

How is it that the state of Israel, a so-called bastion of Western democracy in the Middle East, is able to effectively “get away” with such grave abuses of human rights? Why do so many in the United States, Canada, and Europe accept that the banner of Israel’s national security legitimizes the constant suspension of reason, rationality, and legality?

My final question to you, the reader, is this: have you expressed your outrage today? Tell a friend, bring it up in class, write a blog entry, e-mail links to news articles — get the word out.

Keep the information flowing; do not let the media blackout win.



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Publié le:
November 24, 2008 10:55 PM
Message n°162935— en réponse au n°162797
Abdallah Ali
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Originally written by Scott Rasmussen on November 23, 2008 8:07 PM

This aspect of the political dynamics of the Arab world is barely understood by us in the West.

Since I was little, I hear that family and tribal affiliation is the strongest in the Palestinian communities. It was sometimes the reason of great misunderstandings and disagreements among families and clans, which took ages to disappear, if ever. People affiliate to their clans because they strongly believe in the power of a group. They don't believe much in individualism especially when it comes to hard times.

My grandparents and parents told so many stories that were based on tribalism and such strong bonds, which are naturally formed in most cases. In a given town or village, there could be 4-5 families, 1-2 of which are dominating the area for different reasons. Just like Fateh and Hamas you can imagine that they are the biggest, strongest two families in the Palestinian society now. Those two families have a large number of young men, who may enjoy physical strength, higher education, guns or above all strong belief/loyalty/affiliation. Those families can be the richest too and their senior members are very wise and people listen to their arbitration.

This is the dominant structure of nearly each Palestinian town and village. As the article rightly put it, Arafat played an important role in strengthening the power of Gaza clans. Some of them misused this power, which resulted in chaos. It somehow played a role in weakening the Palestinian Authorities power in the street. A number of clans turned into something like gangs and did a number of crimes, which people sometimes describe as ‘organized crimes’, like extortion and abduction of foreigners. PA bodies were aware of such wanted persons and their whereabouts but were unable to break into their strongholds without causing gross damage. Hamas did not have a problem with that.

As you also read, some clans had an influence on the PA, which was the main concern for Hamas when it came to power. Some of those clans only understand the language of power, and Hamas didn’t waste much time on them.

It is really a long topic and could take me ages to keep writing on it.

==========

Ah, I forgot to stress the fact that Hamas managed to convince its members to be more loyal to the Organization than to their families or clans. This is how Hamas succeeded in building up its power. Hamas leaders and under-leaders are sure about the loyalty of their members, who rarely let them down.

I also stress the fact that members of the mentioned families in that article took part in bringing down the notorious figures of their OWN families.

 



[Modifié par Abdallah Ali - November 24, 2008 11:04 PM]

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November 24, 2008 11:44 PM
Message n°162937— en réponse au n°162843
Abdallah Ali
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

Originally written by Chani D on November 24, 2008 1:00 PM
A question: Egypt did open the border to Gaza a couple of months ago. Why could it not do it again, at least to let through what people most urgently need?
Because the Egyptian government got under the pressure of the US or Israeli government? Or was the situation too difficult to control?

 

Dear Chani,

A good question indeed. Egypt is considered one of the most influential countries in the Arab world and it often assumes the responsibility for settling any disagreement in the Arab region. This is why it falls under pressure too, either by the Arab world or the West.

Regarding opening the borders, Egypt has no logistical problem with that. It is a sovereign country with qualified police force. It doesn’t make sense if one argues that Egypt was not aware of the Gazans plans to break the border and flow into Sinai. Israel has tightened the siege and the whole world could tell that Gaza has reached a boiling point. Egypt demanded that Israel opens the borders for the basic commodities but in vain. It had to allow this step after the stepped-up anger in the Palestinian street and consequently the Arab street.

Palestinians cried out that Egypt had to do something because first, it is our neighbor, second, it is an influential country in the region, and, finally, Egypt is a country that hosted a large number of the Palestinians and supports their cause long time ago.

The Arab street followed the Palestinians’ model and argument. Therefore, a mounting pressure led to opening the borders that way. Angry Gazans broke the borders. Egypt is politically correct. It didn’t open the borders for the Palestinians, who are punished because they carried out democratic elections, unlike most of the regimes in the region.

Israel was happy with that. Egypt interpreted Israel’s position as if it was trying to absolve itself of the obligations towards the Palestinians in the OPT as an occupying power. That was announced many times in the media. The Gazans didn’t care about that as they were busy with stockpiling at that moment. The Palestinian leaders in Gaza were happy too because this pause saved the faces of many officials in the region. The humanitarian conditions were really exacerbating.

After a while, the US stepped in and Egypt had to put things in order as before. Israel claimed that Gazans are smuggling arms and explosives. However, that was a poor claim. The Palestinians didn’t need the borders to open in order to smuggle weaponry. They could do that, and actually did it, through the underground tunnels. They needed to break the borders to tell the whole world that there is a whole population punished out there. They needed to get so many goods and commodities that were denied entry for long time.

Israel’s drones were buzzing the border area. I was there when a drone fired at least one missile towards a truck, which was allegedly carrying smuggled weapons.

Egypt also uses the borders as a means to put pressure on Hamas too because the latter misunderstood Egypt’s position. Hamas sometimes turns a blind eye to international politics. Egypt doesn’t open the borders for the sake of Hamas or Fateh. I believe they do it because they feel they have a duty towards the Palestinians in Gaza.

I second what Ann-Christine said about Hamas disappointing Egypt in the recent talks in preparation for a Palestinian national dialogue and that Egypt wants to conclude an agreement before it is too late.

Egypt announced many times that it abides by the international agreements and won’t open Rafah Terminal before the PA officers, i.e. forces of President Abbas, are deployed there.

 

 


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November 25, 2008 5:17 AM
Message n°162962— en réponse au n°103347
Chani D
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View
Thank you, Abdallah, for taking the time to explain us about the structure of the Palestinian community and about the closed border to Egypt.



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November 25, 2008 8:16 AM
Message n°162979— en réponse au n°162962
Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz
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Langues maternelles: Arabic, Swedish
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Membre depuis: September 23, 2004
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RE: A Palestinian Point of View

The situation in Gaza is getting really, really critical. Their sole power plant will shut down in less than 26 hours, if the blockade won't be eased.

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=33488#

Gaza – Ma’an – The Gaza Strip’s sole power plant will shut down within 30 hours if regular fuel shipments are not allowed to resume, a Palestinian energy official said on Tuesday.
Mahmoud Al-Khizindar, the deputy chief of the federation of fuel companies in Gaza, said that a shipment of fuel allowed by Israel into the besieged Strip would not last more than 30 hours.
The power plant had been operational on Monday night for the first time in over a week after Israel momentarily eased its blockade of the tiny territory, allowing in food and European Union-supplied industrial fuel for the power plant.
Israel has imposed near total closure on the Gaza Strip since 4 November, tightening a blockade it has enforced since June 2007.
According to Al-Khizindar, on Monday Israel allowed only 440,000 liters of industrial fuel into Gaza on Monday. He said that Gaza would continue to be in “crisis” until normal shipments are allowed to resume.
He also said that Israel did not allow other types of fuel to be shipped, including cooking gas and gasoline for cars.
Late on Monday night, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak ordered his military to resume the blockade of Gaza on Tuesday, citing reported homemade rockets fired from the Strip.
Israeli media claimed one such projectile was fired from the Strip on Monday night, causing no damage. No Palestinian group claimed responsibility for the attack.
Earlier on Monday United Nations (UN) Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon appealed to Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
The blockade had forced the UN to suspend a food aid program that serves more than 750,000 Gazans. Monday's shipment of food allowed that program to resume.
The UN said that Monday's deliveries included nine truckloads of goods for the UN World Food Programme (WFP), and eight trucks containing powdered milk and rice for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA).



[Modifié par Ann-Christine Nassar-Pateffoz - November 25, 2008 8:21 AM]

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