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Nanna Mercer
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Being a leader is like being a lady, if you have to go around telling people you are one, you aren't.Margaret Thatcher
Puslapis: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Atgal Atsakyti
Paskelbta:
February 21, 2008 10:49 PM
Žinutė #139182—į #139177
Elena Sgarbossa
Veteran
10010025
Gimtoji kalba Spanish
Žinutės: 230
Įstojo June 17, 2006
Šalis: United States
 
RE: Semicolonoscopy
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on February 21, 2008 5:53 PM

 

People have lost fortunes and even been put to death because of imprecise punctuation involving semicolons in legal papers.

A missing semicolon, and goodbye clientele...

http://signsoflife.goose24.org/?sign=234

 



[Redagavo Elena Sgarbossa February 21, 2008 10:52 PM]

Atsakyti|Cituoti|Redaguoti|Ištrinti
Paskelbta:
February 22, 2008 3:55 AM
Žinutė #139189—į #139182
Nanna Mercer
Expert
500020002000
Gimtosios kalbos: English, Danish
Žinutės: 9024
Įstojo February 12, 2005
Šalis: Denmark
 
RE: Semicolonoscopy

Thank you, Elena, for yet another sign of life. I was unaware that the semicolon could arouse such strong feelings in people:  

"If I were linguistic emperor," says Michael Tomasky, who recently took over as editor of the unabashedly liberal The American Prospect, "not only would semicolons be mandatory, but we'd all be writing like [18th-century Scottish historian Thomas] Carlyle: massive 130-word sentences that were mad concatenations of em dashes, colons, semicolons, parentheticals, asides; reading one of those Carlyle sentences can sweep me along in its mighty wake and make me feel as if I'm on some sort of drug. What writing today does that? Some, maybe even a lot, in the realm of literature; but not much in non-fiction, alas."

[…]

On page 109 of Eats, Shoots & Leaves, Truss explained that she harbors little appreciation for those who "denounce" semicolons:

But how much notice should we take of those pompous sillies who denounce the semicolon? I say, none at all. I say they are just show-offs. And I say it's wonderful that when Umberto Eco was congratulated by an academic reader for using no semicolons in The Name of the Rose (1983) he cheerfully explained (so the apocryphal story goes) that the machine he typed The Name of the Rose on simply didn't have a semicolon, so it was slightly unwise of this earnest chap to make too much of it. "

…. 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200511220013

Nanna

 


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Paskelbta:
February 22, 2008 4:06 AM
Žinutė #139191—į #139177
Nanna Mercer
Expert
500020002000
Gimtosios kalbos: English, Danish
Žinutės: 9024
Įstojo February 12, 2005
Šalis: Denmark
 
The semicolon explained...

How to avoid linguistic emperors and pompous sillies:

The semicolon and other tricky punctuations explained with easy to understand examples. Please see:

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/adv_tech_wrt/resources/sentence_style/semicolons.htm

Semicolons are “super commas.”
Main rule: Use semicolons to connect complete sentences:

The rotor turns, and it creates an electromotive field. < no semicolon

The rotor turns, and thus it creates an electromotive field.
< no semicolon

The rotor turns ; thus it creates an electromotive field.
< semicolon

Rule:

Use a semicolon to replace and + a comma.

Use a semicolon when you are combining sentences with conjuncts [link to transition word page]: however, therefore, thus, consequently. . .  

 

The problem of acid rain has become critical, and therefore we need to install scrubbers. < no semicolon

The problem of acid rain has become critical ; therefore, we need to install scrubbers.
< semicolon

The project was complete, and we were glad to move on to something
new.
< no semicolon

The project was complete ; we were glad to move on to something 
new.
< semicolon

Note: can you use a comma here? No, then you have 
a comma splice.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Another use of semicolons:

We are opening new branches in Santa Fe, New Mexico; Missoula, Montana; and Moscow, Idaho.

The members of the committee include Jim Jensen, architect ; Bob Hanson, civil engineer ; Greg Cook, electrical engineer ; and Mary Storm, project supervisor.

Rule:  Use semicolons for clarity to set off phrases that already contain commas.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Nanna


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Paskelbta:
April 3, 2008 9:19 AM
Žinutė #142467—į #139182
Jacek K.
TC tikrasis narys
Gimtoji kalba Polish
Įstojo February 18, 2003
Šalis: Poland
 
Double space after a period

Originally written by Nanna Mercer on February 21, 2008 5:53 PM  
People have lost fortunes and even been put to death because of imprecise punctuation involving semicolons in legal papers.

See also Post #135200 on the comma war.

* * *

In her description of the translation process, Lucja Biel (http://accurapid.com/journal/44freelancer.htm) points out that as part of the quality assurance the translator should

Remove any double spaces

from her translation.

Right. However, there are still organizations, believe it or not, that use double spacing after a period (full stop to Brits). Originally, those who learned typing on typewriters, at least in the United States, were taught to use two spaces after a sentence-ending period for a better readability, to help people distinguish between sentence-ending periods and abbreviation-ending periods, etc. With word processors these considerations are gone, however see a discussion of this at http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68:

For all of you haters of the double-space after a full-stop, I hate to tell you that I am writing a style guide for my organization that will include it as a rule. We create very formal documents. To ensure the documents are as intelligible as possible, we will use two spaces. I do not care what font you use. Laziness is acceptable in today's culture many places, but I will not allow it in the documents I edit. We also use 1-inch margins instead of the MS Word default of 1.25 inches because we need to fit as much information into as little space as possible while not neglecting our need to be as succinct as possible.

Also: "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in the MLA Handbook and the MLA Style Manual. As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor or editor requests that you do otherwise." http://www.mla.org/style/style_faq/style_faq3 (via http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/80607)

Otherwise, like Lucja, I only find recommendations on the Web for the use of a single space after all punctuation marks, e.g.: "Double spaces date back to the days of typewriters, when all characters were allotted the same amount of space. Computerized typesetting adjusts the spacing for a good fit. Extra spaces create gaps and look unprofessional." http://www.utexas.edu/visualguidelines/punctuation.html

Jacek


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Paskelbta:
June 25, 2008 5:07 AM
Žinutė #149380—į #139177
Jacek K.
TC tikrasis narys
Gimtoji kalba Polish
Įstojo February 18, 2003
Šalis: Poland
 
RE: Concerning punctuations and quotation marks.

Back to

Has modern life killed the semicolon?

http://www.slate.com/id/2194087/


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Paskelbta:
June 25, 2008 5:39 AM
Žinutė #149384—į #142467
Nanna Mercer
Expert
500020002000
Gimtosios kalbos: English, Danish
Žinutės: 9024
Įstojo February 12, 2005
Šalis: Denmark
 
RE: Double space after a period
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on April 3, 2008 3:19 PM

In her description of the translation process, Lucja Biel (http://accurapid.com/journal/44freelancer.htm) points out that as part of the quality assurance the translator should

Remove any double spaces

from her translation.

Right. However, there are still organizations, believe it or not, that use double spacing after a period. ... 

Yes, and what do you do when the source has double spacing?

I usually remove the double spacing, but I always have an uneasy feeling that I am in the wrong.

Nanna 



[Redagavo Nanna Mercer June 25, 2008 5:41 AM]

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Paskelbta:
June 25, 2008 12:31 PM
Žinutė #149420—į #98316
Jonathan Downie
Elite Veteran
50010010010025
Gimtoji kalba English
Žinutės: 845
Įstojo March 9, 2008
Šalis: United Kingdom
 
RE: Concerning punctuations and quotation marks.
I always double space.  If only because it was how I was taught and I have seen no real push to the contrary.  Mind you, I add in punctuation after letter closes (Kind regards, yours sincerely, etc) so I may be just old-fashioned.  

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Paskelbta:
July 19, 2008 7:17 AM
Žinutė #151071—į #142467
Janus Jacquet
Extreme Veteran
100100100252525
Gimtoji kalba Danish
Žinutės: 389
Įstojo May 7, 2004
Šalis: Denmark
 
RE: Double space after a period

Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on April 3, 2008 3:19 PM

http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68:

For all of you haters of the double-space after a full-stop, I hate to tell you that I am writing a style guide for my organization that will include it as a rule. We create very formal documents. To ensure the documents are as intelligible as possible, we will use two spaces. I do not care what font you use. Laziness is acceptable in today's culture many places, but I will not allow it in the documents I edit. We also use 1-inch margins instead of the MS Word default of 1.25 inches because we need to fit as much information into as little space as possible while not neglecting our need to be as succinct as possible.

Interesting that someone who is obviously very much against ‘laziness’ would nonetheless write a style guide that codifies what is originally itself a sign of laziness: the double-space.

Were he interested in maintaining optimal intelligibility and readability in his organisation’s “very formal documents”, he should codify the usage of the character the double-space is a lazy typewriter workaround for: the em space.

Then again, he does seem to refer to Microsoft Word as a guiding line or standard for page layout, so I’d say his blather can be dismissed fairly easily.

 

Link inserted by the moderator



[Redagavo Nanna Mercer July 19, 2008 7:42 AM]

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Paskelbta:
July 19, 2008 7:47 AM
Žinutė #151072—į #151071
Jeff Allen
Expert
1000500100252525
Gimtoji kalba English
Žinutės: 1680
Įstojo December 23, 2004
Šalis: France
 
correcting citation, not from Jacek but by "Scott" at another site

Thanks Nanna for inserting that link. I saw it at the same time.

It points to a statement by a (Scott | Aug-7-07 1:28PM) in the discussion at http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68:

Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on April 3, 2008 3:19 PM

http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68:

For all of you haters of the double-space after a full-stop, I hate to tell you that I am writing a style guide for my organization that will include it as a rule. We create very formal documents. To ensure the documents are as intelligible as possible, we will use two spaces. I do not care what font you use. Laziness is acceptable in today's culture many places, but I will not allow it in the documents I edit. We also use 1-inch margins instead of the MS Word default of 1.25 inches because we need to fit as much information into as little space as possible while not neglecting our need to be as succinct as possible.

It is certainly important for people who use the quote feature here on TC to check the post they are quoting and make sure that internal citations and references are not deleted.

Jeff

 



[Redagavo Jeff Allen July 19, 2008 7:55 AM]

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Paskelbta:
July 19, 2008 8:30 AM
Žinutė #151077—į #98316
Janus Jacquet
Extreme Veteran
100100100252525
Gimtoji kalba Danish
Žinutės: 389
Įstojo May 7, 2004
Šalis: Denmark
 
RE: Concerning punctuations and quotation marks.

My apologies. In my eager to make the quoted message shorter, I must accidentally have chopped off a line too many—and then my post appeared at the top of a new page, further breaking whatever continuity there was!


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