Home Home Home
Home
Translation Jobs
Hide Panels
Members Log On

User Name

Password
Click to get help
Site Language
ENEnglish
Forums
You are currently browsing as a guest. Please log on to access more features.
Moderators
Becky Barath, Patrick Panifous
Message format
Thread information
Last Activity November 21, 2009 4:30 AM

390 replies
45018 viewings

Site Search
Notification

Toggle e-mail notification

XML RSS Feed
Recommend Us
stumbleupon|digg|del.icio.us|reddit|facebook
Legend
Posted Messages:
5000 5000
2000 2000
1000 1000
500 500
100 100
25 25
Colour Coding:
  • Administrator
  • Forum Moderator
  • Registered User
La beauté naît du regard de l'homme. Mais le regard de l'homme naît de la nature.Hubert Reeves, "L'Espace prend la forme de mon regard"
Page: 126 27 28 29 30 31 3240
Back Reply
« Thread »
Do you translate into a foreign language?

We've beaten this to death: Translators should only translate into their mother tongue. Time to check how often this rule is not observed.

The question is: Do you also translate into foreign languages rather than into your mother tongue only?

Please note that for the purpose of this poll

(a) mother tongue=language of habitual use=dominant language='A' language (we've already beaten those distinctions to death elsewhere),

(b) I am interested in what you do as a rule, not in exceptions. If you routinely translate 10% of your stuff into a foreign language/foreign languages, your answer is #2. If you disagree with that practice, but it just happened this month that you exceptionally and reluctantly had to exclusively translate into a foreign language, your answer is #1.

Jacek

Option Votes
 
 

Posted:
December 7, 2006 2:35 PM
Post #105805—in reply to #81374
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Reminds me of that fellow Skin-ner who proposed the use of psychological behavior modification techniques to improve society and increase human happiness...

Jacek


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
December 7, 2006 3:50 PM
Post #105811—in reply to #105805
Nanna Mercer
Photo
Expert
500020002000
Mother tongues: English, Danish
Posts: 9022
Joined: February 12, 2005
Location: Denmark
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Yes, Skinner was a real hero...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.F._Skinner

Nanna

 



[Edited by Nanna Mercer on December 7, 2006 3:52 PM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 5:16 AM
Post #173343—in reply to #105805
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

For reasons amply discussed here and elsewhere (e.g. RE: Translating into one’s native language… for re ) 38% of translators also translate out of their mothe tongue.

Now imagine that:

(a) You are an English-speaking outsourcer in need of translations out of one of those B languages where the odds of locating an English native speaker who (i) is fluent in B, and is (ii) adequately specialized, and (iii) avaliable, equal zero. You get the translation below. What do you do? This is a question for English native speakers only who are able to put themselves in that outsourcer's shoes: Do you refuse to pay? Do you ask for a discount, and how much, knowing that without the help of a native speaker the non-native translator will not be able to correct the translation herself?

(b) Now put yourself in that translator's shoes. As I said, the odds of locating an English native speaker who (i) is fluent in B, and is (ii) adequately specialized, and (iii) avaliable, equal zero. What should she do? Apologize and accept the non-payment? Discuss the discount level? Learn the lesson and stop translating into English?

Below is the sample for a kind evaluation by English native speakers. This is only about the quality of English (which obviously follows the source verbosity too literally) and not about the translation accuracy as the proofreader does not understand the source text :

We have been asked to present our position in respect to the issue of an acknowledgement by a general meeting of an acquiring company of the fulfilment of duties by the members of authorities of a company being acquired. The question is related with the forthcoming annual general meeting of X for 2008, and with the fact that on June 30, 2008, thus during the last financial year of X, the merger of X with other company, namely Y, took place. Your question pertains also to the fact whether not adopting a resolution on acknowledgement of the fulfilment of duties may constitute a basis for liability of X towards the members of Y authorities, in particular in connection with the fact that such acknowledgement is the subject of examination of the FSA when granting a permission for performing specified functions in the authorities of financial institutions.
In our memorandum we assume that a financial year of both companies is equal to the calendar year.
The exclusive addressee of our memorandum is X.
Before commencing an analysis, it should be emphasized that in the principal matter being the subject of this memorandum, there is no view of a doctrine, and still less the position of judicial decisions. Therefore, each interpretation of the provisions is by nature burdened with high level of subjectivism and is exposed to the risk of a different assessment by a court potentially adjudicating the case.
1.         Summary
We are of the opinion that the subject of annual general meeting of the acquiring company (here: X) should also include the acknowledgement of the fulfilment of duties by members of the authorities of the company being acquired (here: Y). A teleological interpretation of binding provisions primarily speaks in favour of it, indicating that after the merger date any claims for compensation against members of the authorities of the company being acquired, which are acquired under general succession from the company being acquired by the acquiring company, shall continue to be governed by the same rules, as before the merger date. It regards also the fact which authority of the company is competent to present an opinion on existence of such claims, enforcement or waiving thereof (Article 395.2.3) of the Commercial Companies Code (hereinafter the C.C.C.), Article 393.2 of the C.C.C.), and in particular whether the management board of the acquiring company is such an authority, or, as it undoubtedly was before the merger date, the general meeting of the company. This interpretation is also supported by the situation that often within the structuring of a merger transaction, the fact, which of the companies participating in the merger shall be the acquiring company and which shall be the company being acquired, has a coincidental nature, or at least it is not determined by matters regarding company law, and that often there is at least some continuation taking place with regard to the composition of the authorities between the company being acquired and the acquiring company after the merger date. It indicates a practical sense and a need to further apply the abovementioned provisions regulating such claims as well as the absence of the reason for distinguishing the position of members of authorities of the company being acquired and acquiring company.
In our assessment, the literal wording of Article 395.2.3 of the C.C.C. does not object to such interpretation, since it additionally needs to be remembered that also in this respect the provisions were already subject to a certain extensive interpretation, not finding in their initial, explicit, literal wording, an application to, for example, members of the authorities whose mandates expired. Meanwhile the extensive interpretation was correctly applied in case of such persons, which subsequently was confirmed in the altered wording of the provision.
To defend such opinion it may also be indicated that the regulation of corporation succession of companies is regulated by the C.C.C. generally in a rudimentary manner, i.e. this regulation omits not only the principles of liability of members of the authorities of the company being acquired, but, for example, the issues of effects of appealing against resolutions of the company being acquired, after the merger date as well. It demonstrates that in many places in regard to the regulation of the merger and its consequences, it is still necessary to read the provisions more creatively, without limiting to the explicitly understood literal interpretation.
It does not mean that the opinion presented in this memorandum is the only possible one. In the memorandum itself we indicate numerous arguments which may be raised to defend an opposite opinion, including for the defence against the potential claims of members of the authorities of Y.
In order to mitigate the risk on part of the members of Y authorities in the fulfilment of objectives of X, as understood by us (no acknowledgement of the fulfilment of duties to members of the authorities of Y if the premises of their liability for damages existed and without a necessity to analyse the scope of the acknowledgement), we recommend that:

Can/should the translator be paid for this?

Jacek


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 5:50 AM
Post #173349—in reply to #81374
Fevzi Gürbüz A
Photo
New User

Mother tongue: Turkish
Posts: 2
Joined: September 12, 2007
Location: Turkey
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Have you also beaten to death the meaning of "bilingualism"? How can a person, especially a translator/interpreter be bilingual if s/he can not interpret/translate in both directions?


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 5:54 AM
Post #173351—in reply to #173343
Nanna Mercer
Photo
Expert
500020002000
Mother tongues: English, Danish
Posts: 9022
Joined: February 12, 2005
Location: Denmark
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Originally written by Jacek K. on April 9, 2009 11:16 AM

 [...]

1.         Summary
... A teleological interpretation of binding provisions primarily speaks in favour of it, indicating that after the merger date any claims for compensation against members of the authorities of the company being acquired, which are acquired under general succession from the company being acquired by the acquiring company, shall continue to be governed by the same rules, as before the merger date...
Can/should the translator be paid for this?

Yikes...are you serious about wanting to know?
Nanna

 


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 5:56 AM
Post #173352—in reply to #173351
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Damn serious, including the exact percentage to be deducted if a penalty discount is suggested. As I said, there are serious geographic attenuating circumstances and this has not been posted to the Howler Spotting thread...



[Edited by Jacek K. on April 9, 2009 5:59 AM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 6:02 AM
Post #173354—in reply to #173343
Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov
Expert
2000500100100100100
Mother tongues: Polish, English
Posts: 2904
Joined: September 13, 2008
Location: United States
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

I think, Jacek, these questions are still too much on the yes/no side, the black and white categorization. Who is a native speaker? Some high school students, or high school drop-outs  from the South Bronx, not to offend anybody, but their language would be much different from  the one of a Harvard professor. Their slang may have a lot of charm, but I do not think they will be able to write a proper letter to the Department of State for you, just as an example. Even the language of college students from technical departments is much different from whatever is required of journalistic writing. I have learned English when I was eight, but most of my college education is in English only, and having spent most of my adult life in an English speaking country, my written English, when I revise the writing a few times, is better than my written Polish. I cannot write literature, including poetry in Polish. So, the native language thing is very confusing, sometimes. How many native speakers of Hindi you would find who speak Polish? Not too many, I think. What do you do in such  a situation. There are even not too many people whose first language was English and who know Polish well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



[Edited by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on April 9, 2009 6:30 AM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 6:09 AM
Post #173356—in reply to #81374
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Forget the poll questions, Liliana. I am happy with the numbers. Let's focus on my today's post.


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 6:12 AM
Post #173358—in reply to #173356
Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov
Expert
2000500100100100100
Mother tongues: Polish, English
Posts: 2904
Joined: September 13, 2008
Location: United States
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

A part of my previous post is not visible, can somebody help me. I tried everything.

 

I solved the problem, thank you.



[Edited by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on April 9, 2009 6:35 AM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
April 9, 2009 6:37 AM
Post #173365—in reply to #173356
Nanna Mercer
Photo
Expert
500020002000
Mother tongues: English, Danish
Posts: 9022
Joined: February 12, 2005
Location: Denmark
 
RE: Do you translate into a foreign language?

Originally written by Jacek K. on April 9, 2009 12:09 PM

Let's focus on my today's post.

My first thoughts are that the translator must have laboured for hours trying to make sense of the source text which, since the translation seems like an almost word-for-word text, must have been horribly verbose and possibly not the original source language. I don't know!

As well, permit me to doubt that the translator knows the source language well enough to translate a legal text.

That takes us to the target language...The translator seems completely out of her element. This kind of (imagined) source text requires a translator who is:

1. Intimately connected to the intricacies of the source language 

2. Translating into her mother tongue 

3. An expert in the subject

Last but not least, a translator who is so well-versed in source, target and subject that she can "rewrite" the text such that it is true to the original context and makes perfect sense in the target language.

Nanna, who apologises for wiggling out of the question in this way...



[Edited by Nanna Mercer on April 9, 2009 10:01 AM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Page: 126 27 28 29 30 31 3240
Back Reply
« Thread »
Home | Forums | Albums | Search
Recent threads | Today | This Week | Top 25
Forum Statistics | Who's Online | Random Quotes
New TC Mobile | Forum Settings | Log On
TranslatorsCafé.com

Site Language English | Español | More...

Copyright © ANVICA Software Development 2002—2009. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy. Terms and Conditions of Use. Use signifies your agreement.
Mail comments and suggestions to TranslatorsCafe.com webmaster
Directory of translators, interpreters and translation agencies.

Forums Disclaimer: The views expressed in the forums are those of the authors and are not necessarily the views of the site owner and/or moderators. If the reader considers a post to cause offence, then she or he should address a complaint to the moderator of the forum concerned. The complaint should be dealt with within 24 hours, but please respect the fact that the moderator may be living in a different time zone. Use of the forums signifies your agreement with the Forum Posting Rules.