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I never think that people die. They just go to department stores.Andy Warhol
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Posted:
August 19, 2008 5:26 PM
Post #153570—in reply to #152193
Jeff Allen
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on August 5, 2008 9:52 AM

The English Lesson

You may find a lone mouse or a whole lot of mice,
[...]

http://www.humbleapostrophe.com/english.html

Well, the plural form of mouse depends on context.  I naturally say mice. When I was a trainer at Caterpillar, I chose to follow the usage of "mouses" of the key person I was training in the pilot phase for the regular cited (and expensive, and risky) project on controlled language writing and machine translation.  I did check all kinds of user manuals and online (mid 90s), yet the plural form was nowhere to be found since the computer accessory was always cited in the singular form.  I didn't feel that it was worth risking the acceptance of such an important project on a small issue of how to pronounce the plural form of the computer accessory, so I regularly said "mouses" in that environment.  And I say "mice" to my kids today.

The word "fish" is a bit more ambiguous.  There is a sign in the aquarium/museum in Chicago that refers to "fishes".  I seem to use both "fish" and "fishes" interchangeably for the plural.

Jeff


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Posted:
August 19, 2008 5:44 PM
Post #153572—in reply to #153570
David Kallans
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff

Originally written by Jeff Allen

There is a sign in the aquarium/museum in Chicago that refers to "fishes".  I seem to use both "fish" and "fishes" interchangeably for the plural.

There is a distinction between the plural forms of "fish" and "fishes."  The two sentences below have different meanings:

1.  There are three fish in this tank.
2.  There are three fishes in this tank.

Sentence No. 1 means that the number of swimming-things in the tank is three, and they may or may not be of the same species.  Sentence No. 2 means that there are three separate species of fish in the tank.


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Posted:
August 19, 2008 5:52 PM
Post #153573—in reply to #153570
Dodo Kaipdodo
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Originally written by Jeff Allen on August 19, 2008 5:26 PM
The word "fish" is a bit more ambiguous. There is a sign in the aquarium/museum in Chicago that refers to "fishes". I seem to use both "fish" and "fishes" interchangeably for the plural.


Er... I say "fish" when I eat them, but "fishes" when I look at them and admire them...

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Posted:
August 19, 2008 7:03 PM
Post #153578—in reply to #153572
Nanna Mercer
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Originally written by David Kallans on August 19, 2008 11:44 PM

Originally written by Jeff Allen
There is a sign in the aquarium/museum in Chicago that refers to "fishes".  I seem to use both "fish" and "fishes" interchangeably for the plural.

1.  There are three fish in this tank.
2.  There are three fishes in this tank.

Sentence No. 1 means that the number of swimming-things in the tank is three, and they may or may not be of the same species.  Sentence No. 2 means that there are three separate species of fish in the tank.

Fascinating! I actually assumed (which goes to show you) that only fish and not fishes were plural.

There are many fishes (not fish) in the sea?  

Nanna

 


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Posted:
August 21, 2008 6:54 AM
Post #153695—in reply to #153578
Jonathan Downie
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on August 19, 2008 7:03 PM

Originally written by David Kallans on August 19, 2008 11:44 PM

Originally written by Jeff Allen
There is a sign in the aquarium/museum in Chicago that refers to "fishes". I seem to use both "fish" and "fishes" interchangeably for the plural.

1. There are three fish in this tank.
2. There are three fishes in this tank.

Sentence No. 1 means that the number of swimming-things in the tank is three, and they may or may not be of the same species. Sentence No. 2 means that there are three separate species of fish in the tank.

Fascinating! I actually assumed (which goes to show you) that only fish and not fishes were plural.

There are many fishes (not fish) in the sea?

Nanna

 



Nope, we say, there are plenty more fish in the sea, when someone has just been dumped by their girl/boyfriend.  However, we would say "mackeral, herring and cod are all types of fish" or "mackerel, herring and cod are all fishes."  English is weird. 

What about "sheep"?  Has anyone else heard "sheepsies" used as a diminuitive?

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Posted:
August 21, 2008 7:16 AM
Post #153698—in reply to #153695
David Kallans
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Originally written by Jonathan Downie

What about "sheep"?  Has anyone else heard "sheepsies" used as a diminuitive?



I've heard the diminutive "lambie," but I think I've only heard it in a children's TV show where it may have been used to fit the ryhme and meter pattern (poetic license).
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Posted:
August 21, 2008 4:05 PM
Post #153756—in reply to #55431
Marisa Paván
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff

Interesting examples of plural forms! I came across the word "monies" (as the plural form of "money") in a contract and I found it hard to identify the word at first. Then I looked it up in the dictionary and this is what I got:

drawing account

Accounting: Name of the account (in the account books of a sole-proprietorship or partnership firm) which records all monies taken out of the business by the owner or partners.

equity method

Method of accounting used by a parent firm for monies invested in the subsidiaries. The parent firm records the investment in its balance sheet at a valuation that takes into account the profits and losses of the subsidiaries since their acquisition. Also called equity accounting. See also cost method.

<script type=text/Java­Script>if (document.cookie.indexOf('come_from_search=') >= 0){var dt = new Date();dt.setTime((new Date()).getTime() - 24*60*60*1000);document.cookie = 'come_from_search=nope;expires=' + dt.toGMTString() + ';path=/';document.write('Find what you were looking for?
');}

Marisa


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Posted:
August 21, 2008 4:11 PM
Post #153758—in reply to #153756
Jacek K.
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Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
Hi Marisa,

I hope that these links can help:

http://www.englishforums.com/English/MoneyMoniesFoodFoods/ccvgj/post.htm 

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=286505 

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic6777.html

Jacek
 

[Edited by Jacek K. on August 21, 2008 4:15 PM]

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Posted:
August 21, 2008 4:33 PM
Post #153763—in reply to #55431
Marisa Paván
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff

Hi Jacek!

Thanks a lot!!! Very useful information!

Marisa

 


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Posted:
August 21, 2008 11:21 PM
Post #153784—in reply to #153763
David Kallans
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RE: pronunciation poem: English is Tough Stuff
"Monies" is a word that I believe I have only ever seen in very formal legal documents, where it is roughly synonymous with "funds."

I expect the vast majority of English-speakers are not even aware that there is such a word.
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