Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 21, 2009 3:23 PM Many people and dictators did a lot of bad things and killed a lot of people, but nobody else to my knowledge made soap out of human bones, methodically collected human hair to make thread and fabrics out of it, eventually clothes, no one has put people through gas chambers and crematoria, no one has degraded people to such an extent.

Gas chambers and crematoria are not the worst human ingenuity could offer.

A person, once killed, doesn`t care much about bones or hair or clothes or soap, I suppose. Yet some things are worse. Kept alive with your soul killed, for example.

But I also personally don't see much of a difference between what Hitler did to the Jews, and what Stalin or Mao did to various "out" groups (the kulaks, the "land owners", etc.). In each case, the dictator utilized an "outsider group" as a scapegoat for the nation's problems, and then mobilized a mass movement to annihilate that group. We should thus be very wary of collectivism and mass movements. The only difference to me is that Germany is the nation of "Dichter und Denker" ("Poets and Thinkers"), and the fact that this atrocity occurred in the - at that time - most educated country in the world, is shocking, but also should be a lesson to us.

Before then, the Germans - under the Kaiser - had turned the largest ethnic community in Namibia into a small minority due to the community's aversion to foreign domination. I believe something similar happened in Zimbabwe carried out by the Boers and like-minded Britons.

As for the 'proper' capitalists, what exactly did the Kumitang do after taking over Taiwan? I gather school children in uniform were considered one of the greatest threats to their rule, a threat that had to be eradicated.

Now that the opportunity presents itself, what of the good US of A? All one sees of America on a social setting, is what the supposedly homogenous 'whites' have, and what the blacks don't have, and I always wonder about what should surely be the most important of all Americans, the native Americans, the owners of the land. What happened to them? What did Jackson and the Dutchman do to them, and where are the survivers?

I sometimes crush on Chinese, English forums just to get a feel of these new "Germans at the gates of Rome", and one must say that it is just as disheartening as it must have been for the ancient Romans. One would expect discussions on Zhao Ziyang's biography; Prisoner of The State, discussions on a new constitution for a new China, the upcoming Tiannamen anniversary ...etc, but all one finds there is foreigners lamenting on the lack of 'globalisation' of basic mannerism by many of the Chinese, and the Chinese's virulent tirade against 'imperialism' and Anglo-American 'liars'. There is nothing there about compensation and investigation into poor workmanship of public schools in Sichuan and possibly all over China. At the moment the new emperors are  unfortunately not very impressive.

Is there any reason why all the problems of the world have to always boil down to anti-Semitism? With all the wars going on in 2009 and millions having been killed in various instances of genocide (Post #41029) over the last century, people keep digging up events of 70 years ago while quietly continuing on the same path in various parts of the world.

Sure enough, there is one point of reference that has always to be there:

Jews should actually take offence at these attempts to supersede their persecution as the single biggest and unique suffering of the world's entire history. Except that in Poland, the analogy is between gays and not Jews but Blacks and how the hoi polloi treat them.

Originally written by Raymond Anthony on May 22, 2009 10:33 AM One would expect discussions on Zhao Ziyang's biography; Prisoner of The State

Definitely on my reading list!

Originally written by Jacek K. on May 22, 2009 4:34 AM http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=is_homophobia_the_new_anti_semitism     Jews should actually take offence at these attempts to supersede their persecution as the single biggest and unique suffering of the world's entire history. Except that in Poland, the analogy is between gays and not Jews but Blacks and how the hoi polloi treat them. Originally written by Raymond Anthony on May 22, 2009 10:33 AM One would expect discussions on Zhao Ziyang's biography; Prisoner of The State Definitely on my reading list!

What is the reason for all these phobias in Poland, because otherwise Poles are very intelligent and often nice people.

Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 22, 2009 11:33 AM Originally written by Jacek K. on May 22, 2009 4:34 AM  Except that in Poland, the analogy is between gays and not Jews but Blacks and how the hoi polloi treat them. What is the reason for all these phobias in Poland, because otherwise Poles are very intelligent and often nice people.

The reason is the same all over the world; people are afraid of what they don't understand. When they don't understand  someone or something, they'll do their horrible best to iradicate whoever or whatever so it will stop bothering the edges of their conscious mind. They'll even kill to stop it bothering them...for rather than open their minds to what can give rise to often very unpleasant cognitive dissonance Post #127280...

Nanna

Originally written by Raymond Anthony on May 22, 2009 4:33 AM Now that the opportunity presents itself, what of the good US of A? All one sees of America on a social setting, is what the supposedly homogenous 'whites' have, and what the blacks don't have, and I always wonder about what should surely be the most important of all Americans, the native Americans, the owners of the land. What happened to them? What did Jackson and the Dutchman do to them, and where are the survivers?

First of all I would like to mention that I really  feel sorry for what has happened to the Native American people, or Indians, as they call themselves. I like a lot of their culture and spirituality. I do not think that anyone was the only owner of such a big land as America and other people had the right to a settlement too, maybe not in such a way as it was done. Secondly, the Native Americans weren't exactly Buddhist Monks or Jehovah Witnesses, as far as war methods were concerned. They had wars with each other, one tribe fighting other tribes for land, women, game. They loved scalping, counting coup, etc, so I think the judgement has to be a little bit restrained.

Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 22, 2009 11:33 AM What is the reason for all these phobias in Poland, because otherwise Poles are very intelligent and often nice people.

It would be more interesting to see what statistics say. The fact that socially involved media carry these shocking stories about how gays and Blacks are sometimes battered says nothing about the extent of the phenomenon. That's why our own memories are also important. To follow up on your Post #176597, I grew up in Poland without knowing anything about anti-Semitism and, frankly, I didn't learn about it until I emigrated to the US.

Originally written by Nanna Mercer on May 22, 2009 5:56 AM Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 22, 2009 11:33 AM Originally written by Jacek K. on May 22, 2009 4:34 AM  Except that in Poland, the analogy is between gays and not Jews but Blacks and how the hoi polloi treat them. What is the reason for all these phobias in Poland, because otherwise Poles are very intelligent and often nice people. The reason is the same all over the world; people are afraid of what they don't understand. When they don't understand  someone or something, they'll do their horrible best to iradicate whoever or whatever so it will stop bothering the edges of their conscious mind. They'll even kill to stop it bothering them...for rather than open their minds to what can give rise to often very unpleasant cognitive dissonance Post #127280...   Nanna

I thought so too. I even think that this is a part of the Palestinian problem: that if Israel supported the return of the refugees or the establishment of the Palestinian state, no one could tell  what would happen in terms of security. I think it is not hatred but fear that stops them. 

Originally written by Jacek K. on May 22, 2009 6:18 AM Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 22, 2009 11:33 AM What is the reason for all these phobias in Poland, because otherwise Poles are very intelligent and often nice people. It would be more interesting to see what statistics say. The fact that socially involved media carry these shocking stories about how gays and Blacks are sometimes battered says nothing about the extent of the phenomenon. That's why our own memories are also important. To follow up on your Post #176597, I grew up in Poland without knowing anything about anti-Semitism and, frankly, I didn't learn about it until I emigrated to the US.

Jacek, I meant in the present times. When I was growing up there was only one Black person I knew in  the 3 mln metropolitan area of Katowice and no gay people, as far as what I was told.

The only complaint the Black boy had was that children would call him Murzynek and try to touch him, otherwise he was fine, at least looked fine.

Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on May 22, 2009 12:30 PM Jacek, I meant in the present times.

As I said, we don't know until we can see surveys. It's one thing if 12% of the population is racist and the media blow it up and it's a completely different thing if 42% of the population is racist. I don't measure these things. For example, with controversial topics strictly censored under communism, I was growing up without knowing the full extent and impact of the 1968 Jewish purge in Poland. You cannot opine on the state of mind of a nation without access to current demographic and sociological data.