Posted: September 19, 2008 5:31 AM | Post #155995—in reply to #155986 |
Jacek K. TC Master
 Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? I was obviously also going to post about this. It made me think about Post #155805 and why the guy decided to emigrate from Poland. Shows you how the tribal life can be repulsive and sad...
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Posted: November 19, 2008 10:14 AM | Post #162313—in reply to #20588 |
Jacek K. TC Master
 Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? I would be interested to hear comments on: The new anti-Semitism? How ancient prejudice and outright hostility have re-emerged since the Nuremberg Trials
This is a review of: Denis MacShane GLOBALISING HATRED The new antisemitism 188pp. Orion. £12.99. 978 0 297 84473 0
by Christopher Hitchens who is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His most recent book, God Is Not Great: The case against religion, appeared earlier this year. Full story: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article5186954.ece
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Posted: November 19, 2008 10:36 AM | Post #162318—in reply to #162313 |
David Kallans
 Expert       Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? Anti-semitism is a very complex matter and this article fails to address some very pertinent facts. Chief among these: 1. The article speaks about the traditional antagonism between a rural, established conservative Christian community and the Jewish, urban, eduated elite. However, in the contemporary US, the biggest supporters of Israel are in fact rural Christian fundamentalists who wish Israel to prosper becuase they see it as a sign of the imminent return of Christ. Support of Israel is thus linked to ideas such as anti-scientific reasonging (e.g. support of creationism). The most prominent Jew in American politics, Joe Lieberman, campaigned ardently on behalf of the most anti-intellectual politician in America, Sarah Palin. Some anti-Jewish sentiment thus stems from its association with conservative ideas. 2. The article fails to address the cultural tensions between Jewish and Anglo-Saxon American culture. As a WASP who has spent considerable time among Jews, I have observed a number of Jewish cultural traits that WASPS view disfavorably. First, Jews can be very clanish and arrogant, and even cold, to non-Jews. Second, the approach to language and discourse between Jews and WASPS is quite different. WASPS tend to favor subtle, indirect language, whereas many Jews are direct and blunt, which WASPS interpret as rude. 3. Many Americans have lost respect for Jews because they are so clearly self-centered and indifferent to other groups. The treatment of Palestinians has eroded much good will, and many have been horified at the silence of the Jewish community in the face of genocide in the Balkans, Rwanda, and Darfur. I grew up in the 1970s hearing Jews say over and over again that they would "never again" allow genocide to occur. It appears, however, that they only meant Jewish genocide, and that the genocide of other peoples is unimportant.
[Edited by David Kallans on November 19, 2008 10:40 AM]
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Posted: November 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Post #162327—in reply to #162318 |
Jacek K. TC Master
 Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? Originally written by David Kallans on November 19, 2008 4:36 PM
...they only meant Jewish genocide, and that the genocide of other peoples is unimportant. | This has always struck me too and is actually beyond my comprehension. Jacek
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Posted: November 19, 2008 3:23 PM | Post #162359—in reply to #162327 |
Harry Bornemann TC Master
 Elite Veteran      Mother tongue: GermanPosts: 843 Joined: December 31, 2002 Location: Mexico | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic?
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on November 19, 2008 5:00 PM
Originally written by David Kallans on November 19, 2008 4:36 PM ...they only meant Jewish genocide, and that the genocide of other peoples is unimportant. | This has always struck me too and is actually beyond my comprehension. | These double standards remind me of the US politics, who first turned Germany and Japan into pacifists by indoctrinating the constitutions and education plans accordingly (which was an honourable achievement) while today they are complaining that we don't want to help attacking or occupying other countries.
Sorry, but you will first have to attack us to turn us into warmongers again..
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Posted: November 20, 2008 6:20 PM | Post #162501—in reply to #162359 |
John Bunch
 Expert      Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? We Americans never wanted the Germans to be pacifists. We wanted them in NATO. Or am I missing something ?
[Edited by John Bunch on November 20, 2008 6:22 PM]
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Posted: November 20, 2008 7:25 PM | Post #162503—in reply to #162501 |
Harry Bornemann TC Master
 Elite Veteran      Mother tongue: GermanPosts: 843 Joined: December 31, 2002 Location: Mexico | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic?
Originally written by John Bunch on November 21, 2008 12:20 AM
We Americans never wanted the Germans to be pacifists. We wanted them in NATO. Or am I missing something ? | Maybe you are missing the after WW2 slogan "Nie wieder Krieg!", followed by the 70's Peace & Love movement, accompanied by a crazy education plan where we went through the Drittes Reich 3 times, so it made up 90% of my history lessons, with most of the rest coming from translating Caesar's De bello Gallico.
Being in the NATO means to be obliged to defend a member when he is attacked. For the Afghanistan war, the controlled demolition of 9/11 was "sold" as such an attack from the world wide terrorism, centered in Afghanistan. We all remember the heroic image of the Taliban as long as they fought the Russian occupiers, but as soon as they fought the US occupiers, they seemed to have suddenly turned into monsters. I still don't understand the attack on Afghanistan, and the attack on Irak is even less understandable.
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Posted: November 21, 2008 10:43 AM | Post #162582—in reply to #162501 |
David Kallans
 Expert       Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? Originally written by John Bunch on November 20, 2008 6:20 PM We Americans never wanted the Germans to be pacifists. We wanted them in NATO. Or am I missing something ? | The US never wanted a German army that was able to do anything on its own. Mostly the US wanted to base its own forces on German soil and work with token German forces that would follow US policy. The last thing the US, or any of its other WWII allies, wanted was an independent and strong German military that could actualy exert power on its own, even if it was within NATO. The US was displeased enough when France removed its forces from NATO control.
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Posted: May 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Post #176573—in reply to #162582 |
Jacek K. TC Master
 Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? Ukrainian gendarmes and Latvian auxiliary police, Romanian soldiers or Hungarian railway workers, Polish farmers, Dutch land registry officials, French mayors, Norwegian ministers, Italian soldiers -- they all took part in Germany's Holocaust.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,625824,00.html
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Posted: May 20, 2009 7:04 PM | Post #176592—in reply to #176573 |
John Bunch
 Expert      Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States | RE: Is Europe anti-semitic? That is true. Over half of the concentration camp guards were not Germans, I read somewhere. And historically, Germany was not one of the more anti-Semitic countries.
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