Originally written by John Bunch on July 3, 2009 9:58 PM But again, we were originally discussing Iranian students peacefully protesting ...

Realistically, there is no such thing as students peacefully protesting. There are legal demonstrations and illegal demonstrations. I fail to see how illegal demonstrations can be called peaceful because they oblige the police to break them up by force and arrest the ringleaders and that can seldom be done by peaceful means. That reminds me of the Israeli argument that driving a squadron of main battle tanks through an Arab village was, in itself, a peaceful action because not one shot was fired but a group of young lads throwing rocks at the battle tanks as they went through was a violent demonstration entitling military police to suppress the illegal demonstration with rubber bullets and tear gas. It is often only a matter of semantics.

German police mostly use only as much force as is necessary to restore public order, take ringleaders into custody and break up illegal demonstrations and in my opinion, from the TV footage that I saw, the same can be said of the force used by the Iranian authorities, taking the mentality of the people involved into account and the occasion. I wouldn't like to be around if the German police had to handle a mass protest about an election result - then you would see some skull cracking, by golly!

I once got caught up in an illegal demonstration in Strasbourg, Place Kléber. My wife and I came out of a store and found that there was a peaceful student demonstration in progress in the square. The sidewalk was lined with curious shoppers and tourists peacefully watching the equally peaceful demonstration. Eventually a few municipal policemen appeared and started to approach the head of the procession. The complete procession then dispersed into the crowd in a flash and the policemen were left standing alone in the middle of the road. Eventually they left and the procession reformed and continued their march around the square (totally blocking all traffic, of course).

Shortly afterwards, several groups of French CRS riot police entered the square from side streets and an officer with a loud-hailer called out (in French) that there was an illegal demonstration in progress and under French law, spectators to an illegal demonstration who did not disperse after being called on to do so were considered to be participants in the demonstration with all the consequences that entailed. He then called once on everybody to leave the square immediately. Nobody moved - they either did not understand his announcement or they wanted to stay and watch the fun, me included.

The CRS police in riot gear then collected into a formation something like a Roman legion under attack, the officer blew his whistle and off they went, swinging their batons at anybody within reach regardless of whether they looked like demonstrating students or elderly tourists. I saw one fierce monster coming in my direction and thought nothing of it until I saw him hit two tourists on the hip with his club in passing. When he had almost reached me he lifted his club high over his head, still running, and brought it down sharply as he went by and I swear that I heard it rattle down the buttons on my overcoat, it was so close. By then the entire square was a scene of chaos as the crowd and the demonstrators all tried to leave at the same time. We didn't look back, found our way to the underground parking and drove away as fast as we could.

  Place Kléber, Strasbourg

I did not see anything as bad as that in the TV coverage of the Iranian election result protests yet the entire action in Strasbourg scarcely merited more than a brief mention in the newspapers.

That is why I believe that the entire Iranian spectacle was primarily a media event.

Derek

Originally written by Derek Thornton on July 4, 2009 12:06 AM My wife and I came out of a store and found that there was a peaceful student demonstration in progress in the square. The sidewalk was lined with curious shoppers and tourists peacefully watching the equally peaceful demonstration. Eventually a few municipal policemen appeared and started to approach the head of the procession. The complete procession then dispersed into the crowd in a flash and the policemen were left standing alone in the middle of the road. Eventually they left and the procession reformed and continued their march around the square (totally blocking all traffic, of course).

"I have an idea that the only thing which makes it possible to regard this world we live in without disgust is the beauty which now and then men create out of the chaos"
— W. Somerset Maugham (The Painted Veil)

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 4, 2009 9:40 AM "I have an idea that the only thing which makes it possible to regard this world we live in without disgust is the beauty which now and then men create out of the chaos" — W. Somerset Maugham (The Painted Veil)    At  8:00 am a recording of Julie Andrews singing 'Do, Re, Mi' begins to play on the public address system.        As the bemused passengers watch in amazement, some 200 dancers begin to appear from the crowd and station entrances. They created this amazing stunt with just two rehearsals!

I loved waking up while watching this wonderful video.

Thank you!

Nanna

It is indeed a lovely and uplifting thing that cheers the spirits.  Thanks for reposting this link, Jacek.  It is even more suitable in the "Iran" thread, and sorely needed.

Maxi

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 4, 2009 8:40 AM As the bemused passengers watch in amazement, some 200 dancers begin to appear from the crowd and station entrances. They created this amazing stunt with just two rehearsals!

I understand that it was a promotional, staged by the combined dancing schools of Antwerp in an attempt to attract new members. I don't see why they would have needed more than 2 rehearsals. It might brighten up the lives of those that download it from YouTube but there is no way it was going to brighten up Antwerp, one of the most miserable, depressing towns on the entire planet, and even less the Centraal Station, around 100 years old, and something like a Gothic castle built inside a disused zeppelin hangar.

There seems to be something about 19th century rail stations that attracts flash mobs. The BBC put on a complete but abbreviated opera inside Paddington Station, London, (also a depressing location) some years back using a flash mob, a full orchestra and professional singers. The BBC considers it to have been a failure but I watched it fascinated from beginning to end. One thing is clear, though - it is an activity for a few minutes only, requires a lot of preparation and leaves the location appearing all the more depressing when it is over.

There does not appear to be any way of making money with this kind of event so it will presumably remain primarily an activity for extremely extrovert amateurs. I am left wondering, however, if it might not be possible in some jurisdictions to get away with an unauthorized political demonstration in public places if it is done to music (requires access to a PA system) and lasts only 4 minutes? Where is the political arm of the Iranian flash mob movement to be found, I wonder?

Derek

Originally written by Derek Thornton on July 5, 2009 5:14 PM I am left wondering, however, if it might not be possible in some jurisdictions to get away with an unauthorized political demonstration in public places if it is done to music

Come to think about it, this could have an aura of legality inherited from May Day parades under communism when thousands were forced to march in front of Party apparatchiks with happy faces, to the equally happy blast of propaganda songs. It still happens in a handful of places. On the other hand, you can see on TV chanting crowds that look rather menacing here and there so, gosh, maybe we should modify the idea to specifically include dance?

Breakdance? I think it is allowed in the street. I have not seen too much of classical dance in the streets, the Swan Lake, for example.

Would  get away with it? What does this "warrior dance" mean anyway? A war dance or merely a peaceful warriors' dance?  

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 6, 2009 2:35 AM Would  get away with it? What does this "warrior dance" mean anyway? A war dance or merely a peaceful warriors' dance?

Would a mere cultural revolution unleash a civil war?

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 5, 2009 6:35 PM Would [ ...  ] get away with it? What does this "warrior dance" mean anyway? A war dance or merely a peaceful warriors' dance?

I am pretty sure that they would have to be persuaded to put on underwear if that protest was to go out onto the public highway. That little cloth flap in the front does not hack it if they start jumping up and down as they often do when they get excited.

But "Streetdancing" is an art form in many European countries. It is mostly done in halls. This one was put on by Bündnis'90/Die Grünen in the German Bundestag this year as part of a protest against extreme right wing elements in Germany:

Moslem ladies are expected to wear hajibs or burkas, I suppose, and all must have on underwear, that's for sure. You won't see anybody carrying weapons but I see that a number of hooligans political protesters were arrested in the Hamburg riots demonstrations this weekend for carrying Molotov Cocktail kits.

Derek