Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
Originally written by John Bunch on June 9, 2009 7:52 AM
The EU Parliament now is 12 % fascist
As I mentioned in Post #177775, in the inter-cultural ocean of the European Parliament in Brussels/Strasburg idiocy will get dissolved more easily than in national settings. It's better to make morons disappear in Brussels/Strasburg as MEPs than to keep them in individual countries where they can get really dangerous successfully fomenting hatred. International organizations are more likely to maintain their sanity longer than individual tribes.
As for the Left, you know very well that one day the pendulum will swing the other way, as always in politics. You wouldn't expect the Left to win in times of crisis, would you?
Turnout-wise, unsurprisingly, the lowest was on the ex-Soviet periphery: in Slovakia (19.6%), Lithuania (20.9%) and Poland (24.5%). Within Poland itself, there were, of course huge differences, with the east (closer to the ex-USSR) traditionally voting for the Twins' national Catholic party now in opposition and the west of the country being for the current liberal government. In a city like Warsaw, the average turnout was 43%, and it exceeded 50% in boroughs traditionally inhabited by liberal intelligentsia.
With a few exceptions, the American center-right's loudest and most articulate voices have been focused almost exclusively on national security for the better part of the last decade. Lip service was paid to "small government" and "reduced spending" while successive Republican Congresses, hand in hand with a Republican White House, enlarged government and spent like crazy. ...
For the record, [Niall] Ferguson is, at least by origin, a British Tory. For the record, there aren't any U.S. Republican polemicists making the same arguments in quite as public a way. ...
Very crudely, Ferguson and the German government think massive deficits and government borrowing will lead to inflation and ultimately the collapse of the currency. Equally crudely, Krugman and the U.S. administration think he's wrong. ...
Expert Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
Well, where to begin...
a. Regarding Wilders and the right-wing in Europe, I don't know that much about him, and I personally probably would not vote for him if I were Dutch, but don't you find it a bit disturbing that the people in Europe who speak out against Islam have to live on military bases with armed guards 24/7, and cannot even be in public anymore ? (... or they emigrate ?).
b. Regarding Niall Ferguson, well, I didn't know that he is a Tory. Would you write of Krugman, "He is a Democrat ?". Keynesian "solutions" are originally based on Italian fascist "corporatism", and Keynes even admitted that. And they only work under autarky, not in a system in which the individual nation is open to international trade. Keynes also admitted that. Keynesian "solutions" thus have a long history, and the stagflation (stagnation + inflation) of the 1970s worldwide shows it. The "lost decade" in Japan in the 1990s shows it. Now the U.S. is going to, in Ferguson's words, "Go back to the 1970s to prevent the 1930s". Obama has taken on Keynesianism and is now practicing Corporatist Capitalism (the conservatives are wrong, economically, it is closer to Mussolini's Italy than to socialism).
The Europeans should be very wary of this (as the elections have shown, and as Merkel has said). The hardest hit by this all have not been the U.S., but rather, Iceland, Ireland, the UK ("Great Iceland" in Ferguson's words, Germany, and Switzlerland, as well as Japan and South Korea). Indeed, nations like Germany that rely heavily on exports and have neglected internal consumption as a driver of the economy are in for a long, hard road.
Expert Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
BTW, Jacek, the bond market is most likely going to put the stop to Obama's tax and spend policies. James Carville, a Clinton advisor once famously stated, "When I die, I don't want to come back as the Pope, but as the bond market, because I will then be the most powerful thing in the universe". The bond market will soon punish the U.S. for these policies. We will see increasing interest rates having to be paid to bonds, as they individually lose their value as more and more of them are printed. This will be the ultimate "market veto" on Obama and Geithner and Co.
Of course, even bigger would be if China and Japan were to lose faith in the U.S. as a borrower, and "called in" their bonds, which would cause the U.S. economy, and with it, the world economy, including Asia to fall into the "abyss". Fortunately, the Chinese are - I think - too wise and too experienced to let that happen.
Expert Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
Originally written by John Bunch
don't you find it a bit disturbing that the people in Europe who speak out against Islam have to live on military bases with armed guards 24/7, and cannot even be in public anymore ? (... or they emigrate ?).
I find it disturbing that people feel a need to "speak out against Islam." There may indeed be aspects of Islam, like every religion, that legitimately give rise to debate and criticism, but that does not mean one should speak out against Islam per se. Islam is not synonymous with terrorism or the repression of women, any more than Christianity is synonymous with bombing abortion clinics or the ban on birth control. Islam is a beautiful religious, philosophical, and cultural tradition whose essential message is one of love and peace. Europeans owe a great debt to Muslims, as they preserved much of the knowledge of classical Greece that would otherwise have been lost, and made scientific advancements in the middle ages that did much to fuel the Enlightenment. Europeans really have no reason to speak out against Islam, other than pure xenophobia and ignorance of history.
Expert Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
I also think that Islam is one of the "great religions" (which does not mean I like all aspects of it). But at the same time, "diversity" does not mean moral equivalency. One of the reasons I am not a Buddhist is that there are aspects of that religion that I don't like (reincarnation, etc.). To say that Buddhism is exactly the same as Christianity is to practice the opposite of diversity and tolerance (you only need tolerance toward something you disagree with, not toward things you like). To say that Islam is the same as Christianity is not correct. Christianity has a very bloody history itself, particularly in the Middle Ages (I read recently that Mary Queen of Scots regularly burned Protestants at the stake in the 1500s). So if Christianity is so bloody in its history, does anyone really think that one of the other big monotheistic religions is any different, particularly when its founder was a soldier and conqueror ?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Voter turn-out for the EU Parliament
Originally written by John Bunch on June 9, 2009 7:33 PM
One of the reasons I am not a Buddhist is that there are aspects of that religion that I don't like (reincarnation, etc.).
I don't identify with any specific religion simply because I see common roots and archetypes in all of them. Therefore, I also agree with Bill Bryson's scientific take on 'reincarnation' in Post #37926.
Originally written by John Bunch on June 9, 2009 4:57 PM
a. Regarding Wilders and the right-wing in Europe, I don't know that much about him, and I personally probably would not vote for him if I were Dutch, but don't you find it a bit disturbing that the people in Europe who speak out against Islam have to live on military bases with armed guards 24/7, and cannot even be in public anymore ? (... or they emigrate ?).
They do?
I wouldn’t mind putting a few of the politicians who “speak out against Islam” (i.e., Morten Messerschmidt, Mogens Glistrup, Pia Kjærsgaard, Mogens Camre, etc.) in a military base, surrounded by armed guards 24/7. I don’t think that would work, unfortunately. Pesky freedom of speech.
One can dream, though …
For the record, at least up here, there are plenty of people who speak both for and against Islam (sadly, the latter group appears somewhat larger in number than the former), even plenty of people who consider ‘Islam’ almost just a synonym for ‘terrorism’. They don’t have to live on military bases. I’m not sure if I’m just missing some specific news story you’re referring to, or ..?
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