Dikirim: January 28, 2009 4:15 PM | Entri #168408- membalas #168407 |
Dodo Kaipdodo TC Master
Expert     Bahasa ibu: LithuanianJumlah entri: 1554 Bergabung: August 8, 2007 Lokasi: Lithuania | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis | Originally written by David Kallans on January 28, 2009 4:00 PM
"Love of neighbor" is not a corporate mission
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You know, David, this is as witty a maxim as could be! I`d like to borrow it.
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Dikirim: January 28, 2009 7:18 PM | Entri #168411- membalas #168408 |
John Bunch
Expert      Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1820 Bergabung: February 1, 2008 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis I agree with David, everyone, as a human being, tries to maximize the benefit to himself or herself. That does not mean that that is bad, it often results in good (for instance, I think Steve Jobs is "greedy", but his greed has benefitted millions).
Regarding the UN, no offense intended, because I am sure your friend is a hard-working caring person, but I recently heard a funny line on the radio. They were interviewing George Friedman, CEO of Stratfor, and he had a funny line "I was recently in the United Nations building, and I can tell you, the UN cannot control the world. They can't even control their own building". 
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Dikirim: January 28, 2009 7:23 PM | Entri #168412- membalas #168411 |
John Bunch
Expert      Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1820 Bergabung: February 1, 2008 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis That thing with Obama telling Citi not to buy that plane is kind of odd. In a way, I really wonder what Obama is doing. He seems really smart to me, but this seems kind of dumb. First off, why get involved ? What is the upside ? I can see a lot of downside, and no upside for him. For instance, the next time a CEO flies in on a corporate jet, is Obama supposed to, before meeting him, check his balance sheet "to make sure it is o.k." ? It seems like a lot of work. And where does he draw the line ? How "successful" does your company need to be before you get the Obama seal of approval to go ahead and get that plane ? And what is that based on ? For instance, Obama met Google CEO Schmidt, who I assume flew in on a Jetstream. Is that o.k. ? Who decides, and on what basis ?
I also kind of think there might be the following scene at the corporate jet plant, which I assume is in the U.S. "Sorry guys, that Citi deal didn't come through and they are not buying that jet after all, we are going to have to do layoffs" [and I thought the idea was to protect jobs]... [just one of the mirad unintended consequences that people never think of].
[Diedit oleh John Bunch pada January 28, 2009 7:27 PM]
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Dikirim: January 28, 2009 7:52 PM | Entri #168413- membalas #168412 |
John Bunch
Expert      Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1820 Bergabung: February 1, 2008 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis I stand corrected: Obama didn't screw U.S. workers by having Treasury pressure Citi to cancel their jet, they screwed the French worker:
"People close to Citi said the troubled bank could end up paying around $4m to cancel the order for the jet – believed to be a Falcon 7X made by France’s Dassault – unless it can find a buyer for the aircraft." (Financial Times)
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 7:50 AM | Entri #168422- membalas #168413 |
David Kallans
Expert       Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1752 Bergabung: April 13, 2007 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis This corporate jet issue is shere demagoguery. Private jets are not a luxury for corporations, they are a necessity. High-level executives need to be taken to far-flung meetings quickly, and having a private jet is often the quickest and most cost-effective way to get them from place to place. This is like saying that unemployed people who go on job interviews shouldn't be allowed to buy the "luxury" of a suit. It's just populist nonsense that exploits class envy and ignorance.
Full disclosure: I did once get to fly in a client's corporate jet in my lawyer days, and it was, I must admit, really, really cool.
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 8:01 AM | Entri #168423- membalas #168422 |
Shiong-Fong Lew
Bahasa ibu: English Bergabung: March 28, 2004 Lokasi: Malaysia | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis Originally written by David Kallans on January 29, 2009 8:50 PM
This corporate jet issue is shere demagoguery. Private jets are not a luxury for corporations, they are a necessity. High-level executives need to be taken to far-flung meetings quickly, and having a private jet is often the quickest and most cost-effective way to get them from place to place. This is like saying that unemployed people who go on job interviews shouldn't be allowed to buy the "luxury" of a suit. It's just populist nonsense that exploits class envy and ignorance.
Full disclosure: I did once get to fly in a client's corporate jet in my lawyer days, and it was, I must admit, really, really cool.
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Well, if you go by the tens of millions that top executives in U.S. are paid, the time saved would probably pay off the corporate jet but that is of course assuming that they put that time to good, productive, and profitable use. This is not for me to judge.
It was only not too long ago that China got its equivalent of Air Force One (unfortunately engulfed in electronic spying device controversy, that finally seems to point to internal affairs rather than planted U.S.) and there are many other countries in the world where the head of sate still flies the scheduled commercial airlines.
BTW, Obama seems to look stressed out at times compared to the always relaxed appearance of Bush.
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 8:18 AM | Entri #168424- membalas #168423 |
David Kallans
Expert       Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1752 Bergabung: April 13, 2007 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis | Originally written by Shiong-Fong Lew
there are many other countries in the world where the head of sate still flies the scheduled commercial airlines.
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Care to name some? I find this claim highly dubious.
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 8:40 AM | Entri #168425- membalas #168424 |
Shiong-Fong Lew
Bahasa ibu: English Bergabung: March 28, 2004 Lokasi: Malaysia | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis Originally written by David Kallans on January 29, 2009 9:18 PM
| Originally written by Shiong-Fong Lew
there are many other countries in the world where the head of sate still flies the scheduled commercial airlines.
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Care to name some? I find this claim highly dubious.
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Put it this way: Many countries still do not maintain a dedicated plane for the head of state and many of this countries do not have business jet hiring business within the country or in neiboring countries.
Singapore does not maintain a dedicated plane for its head of state (as far as I know) and it is not unusual for the ministers to travel on commercial airlines (the Prime Minister salary can beat that of U.S. presidentail salary (official salary only) hands down). A bit of tidbits:
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makati.blogspot.com/2007/06/singapore-to-krabi-for-20-sgd.html June 29, 2007.
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong flew Tiger Airways back from Hanoi last November. I wonder how much he paid for his fare, if he ordered any of those cup noodles, and whether he paid to request more leg room. Not that he would have had to worry about depleting government funds by opting for an exit row seat - Temasek Holdings, the Singapore Government’s investment arm, owns 11% of Tiger Airways.
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 9:13 AM | Entri #168426- membalas #168413 |
David Kallans
Expert       Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1752 Bergabung: April 13, 2007 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis Originally written by John Bunch
Obama didn't screw U.S. workers by having Treasury pressure Citi to cancel their jet, they screwed the French worker: |
Well Obama has pretty much already demonstrated that he is just another say-one-thing-and-do-another politician, despite all of his false talk of "change." His new man at Treasury, Timothy Geitner, didn't think he himself had to follow the tax laws, but he was deemed "too important" to be held to the same laws that all other Americans are (he failed to pay taxes he owed when he was employed at the IMF, and his "explanations" have been, in my view and those of many others, woefully inadequate). To top it off, Geitner and Obama now want to hire as Geitner's chief deputy a former lobbyist, and they are asking for a waiver from the policy of no lobbyists in federal jobs that they just announced, with smug self-satisfaction, just days ago. Change, indeed. The policy really is "we believe in ethics, except when other considerations are more important," which is really the same policy Bush had.
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Dikirim: January 29, 2009 9:42 AM | Entri #168428- membalas #168426 |
John Bunch
Expert      Bahasa ibu: EnglishJumlah entri: 1820 Bergabung: February 1, 2008 Lokasi: United States | RE: Understanding the Financial Crisis David, what is going on here, I agree with you on all of your posts. What is next, eclipses and locusts ?
But seriously, I agree. To be honest, I really don't know where Obama is. I do know that he is very smart. Conservatives think that he is really a stealth (or not so stealth) socialist who is going to use the crisis to "re-define" the economy (read: bring in statism). Liberals are mad that Obama is already jettisoning things like universal health care plans (already put on the back burner), and that he will reform Social Security as a payoff to Republicans for all the spending. I heard a man who I would describe as pretty far Left yesterday on NPR (National Public Radio) complaining about this. The NY Times labeled Obama's cabinet "center-right".
To be honest, I don't know what they are doing and what their goal is.
What I do like so far:
- Ending the "Mexico City Rule" (which banned health care aid to foreign countries if they mention contraceptives).
- Stem cells
- Increasing fuel efficiency standards
What I find very questionable:
- Accusing China of currency manipulation, exactly when we should be working together with China to solve this mess
- $ 900 billion in pork-barrel spending, about 50 % of which maybe makes sense, but the rest is just throwing money around (and throwing money down holes, in my opinion).
- Refusing to consider Monetarist solutions to the crisis (a 1-year corporate tax holiday, dropping the corporate tax from 35 % to 15 %, etc.).
So far, Obama remains a mystery to me, i.e. he is very hard to read. He is highly intelligent and extremely articulate (especially compared to Bush). His mentors were basically Marxists, more or less, but he also loves Abraham Lincoln. Hmmm. I admire Lincoln greatly and consider him our 2nd best president, but he also did have a dark side in terms of how he unified the U.S. and some of the civil liberty things he did. Lincoln used extreme force (he had to) to make the U.S. one country, and was a very, very powerful president. So here we have a president from a more or less Marxist background, who admires Lincoln. What will that result in ???
[Diedit oleh John Bunch pada January 29, 2009 9:44 AM]
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