Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Post #162592—in reply to #162589 |
Jonathan Ellis
TC Master
 Elite Veteran   Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 701 Joined: June 27, 2006 Location: Netherlands | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by Nanna Mercer on November 20, 2008 5:19 PM
When will I be able to buy those glasses? Not until the cows come home... |
And if they came home, you wouldn't be able to see them anyway...
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Post #162593—in reply to #162583 |
Thor Kottelin
Mother tongue: Finnish
Joined: June 11, 2008
Location: Finland | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by David Kallans on November 21, 2008 4:51 PM
For someone who feels "insulted" by a job price, consider whether when you hire a plumber, you poll everyone in the world to see if someone would be insulted by what you're willing to pay. |
I wonder how many Western plumbers would enjoy being members of a plumbing job board where they would be bombarded with "offers" of being paid USD 5 per hour. If specific "offers" would no longer be allowed on TC, hopefully such "offers" would confine themselves to platformz where they would be, on average, appreciated more highly. This would not be price fixing, merely segmentation.
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:35 AM | Post #162594—in reply to #162583 |
Laurent J Krauland
TC Master
 Mother tongues: German, French
Joined: August 9, 2007
Location: France | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by David Kallans on November 21, 2008 4:51 PM
As for attempts to set minimum rates, this would almost certainly be unlawful under the anti-trust laws of the United States, the European Union, and many other jurisdictions. |
So how could we define what is called GIE (Groupement d'Intérêt Economique) or GEIE (Groupement Européen d'Intérêt Economique) in France, resp. in Europe?
I am not revealing any state secret by saying that some translators want to form such groupments/workshops to act against dumped prices -which also can be seen as a form of trust- and the ever increasing number of "useless" intermediaries, both of these two being correlated anyway...
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on November 21, 2008 11:47 AM]
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:53 AM | Post #162600—in reply to #162593 |
David Kallans
 Expert   Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC | Originally written by Thor Kottelin If specific "offers" would no longer be allowed on TC, hopefully such "offers" would confine themselves to platformz where they would be, on average, appreciated more highly. This would not be price fixing, merely segmentation. |
I respectfully suggest that you do not have a well-informed understanding of the meaning of price-fixing as that term is used in anti-trust law. An agreement to disallow prices below a certain thresshold could easily be deemed unlawful price fixing.
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:56 AM | Post #162601—in reply to #162594 |
David Kallans
Expert Mother tongue: EnglishPosts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by Laurent J. Krauland
I am not revealing any state secret by saying that some translators want to form such groupments/workshops to act against dumped prices
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Well people want to do all sorts of things that are unlawful. Translators certainly can, and do, form organizations designed to promote their interests, but agreeing to fix prices cannot be one of their tactics.
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 11:57 AM | Post #162602—in reply to #162593 |
Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov
Expert  Mother tongues: Polish, EnglishPosts: 2904 Joined: September 13, 2008 Location: United States | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC I personally do not know any plumber who works for less than $35 an hour. Their rates are, however ,controlled by the union, perhaps we should form an international translators union. I am not sure if I am serious about it. Just a possibility. The only other alternative would be to strenghten translators' consciousness and translators' self-esteem.
[Edited by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on November 21, 2008 12:04 PM]
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 12:09 PM | Post #162603—in reply to #162602 |
Laurent Chiacchierini
TC Master
 Expert  Mother tongue: FrenchPosts: 5568 Joined: December 31, 2003 Location: France | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on November 21, 2008 5:57 PM
I personally do not know any plumber who works for less than $35 an hour. Their rates are, however ,controlled by the union, perhaps we should form an international translators union. |
I personally do not know any plumber who works through the Internet to repair leaks on your pipework, nor do I think there is an international plumbers union which sets prices worldwide.
So perhaps we should start by avoiding irrelevant comparisons and forget Joe the Plumber here. 
Laurent C.
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 12:10 PM | Post #162604—in reply to #162601 |
Laurent J Krauland
TC Master
Mother tongues: German, French
Joined: August 9, 2007
Location: France | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by David Kallans on November 21, 2008 5:56 PM
Well people want to do all sorts of things that are unlawful. Translators certainly can, and do, form organizations designed to promote their interests, but agreeing to fix prices cannot be one of their tactics. |
I am sorry - but I don't see what can possibly be regarded as illegal when you create e.g. a groupment with commercial aims (in this case: producing and selling translations) having the status of a registered legal person and to say: "Groupment XYZ makes/sells translations for such prices".
I may have misunderstood you, David, but this will not block translators who are not members of the groupment to make/sell translations at lower prices - and therefore fixing prices as described above is perfectly legal.
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on November 21, 2008 12:16 PM]
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 12:15 PM | Post #162605—in reply to #162600 |
Thor Kottelin
Mother tongue: Finnish
Joined: June 11, 2008
Location: Finland | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by Thor Kottelin on November 21, 2008 9:01 AM
I actually think that posters should not be permitted to make any offers whatsoever. This applies both to absolute rates and to euphemisms such as "your best price", "for long term cooperation" and "considering the size of the job". TC should not degrade into an auction house for virtual sweat shops to abuse. When one wishes to retain a professional, one does not offer a price, but requests the professional(s) to. |
Originally written by David Kallans on November 21, 2008 5:53 PM
| Originally written by Thor Kottelin If specific "offers" would no longer be allowed on TC, hopefully such "offers" would confine themselves to platformz where they would be, on average, appreciated more highly. This would not be price fixing, merely segmentation. |
I respectfully suggest that you do not have a well-informed understanding of the meaning of price-fixing as that term is used in anti-trust law. An agreement to disallow prices below a certain thresshold could easily be deemed unlawful price fixing. |
I am not advocating a threshold, but a ban on any price offers. Do you mean that such a ban would, in some relevant jurisdiction, qualify as indirect price fixing? Please feel welcome to base your argumentation on legal norms rather than merely on my lack of understanding.
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Posted:
November 21, 2008 12:24 PM | Post #162606—in reply to #162605 |
Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov
Expert Mother tongues: Polish, EnglishPosts: 2904 Joined: September 13, 2008 Location: United States | RE: Such jobs should not be permitted on TC Originally written by Thor Kottelin on November 21, 2008 12:15 PM
I actually think that posters should not be permitted to make any offers whatsoever.
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I absolutely agree. I think it is the translators that should provide their best rates, so that the company has some choice whose rate to chose, the lowest one or the most experienced translators'. Liliana Quote format fixed by forum administrator
[Edited by Laurent Chiacchierini on November 21, 2008 12:42 PM]
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