This thread, or one like it, should be made sticky and provide a forum for comment on all posted jobs so that there may be a modicum of consensus on how to respond to such ads.

I've just seen one for "Audio translation" offering £1.40 per audio minute for translation of an hour of audio files. As 1 hour may be up to 10k words, that's £84 for 10k words, or less than 1 penny per word!! (£0.0084, about €0.0095 or $0.014).

Never mind the fact that audio translation takes a lot longer than text translation and that inherent audio quality, accents & other problems are yet to be defined, I am astounded to see that at the time of writing, the poster already has 11 bids and climbing!

I BUY audio translation and I can tell you it is worth MANY TIMES the rate offered. However, without a forum where we can quickly and easily share experience, comment and opinion on every job (with a link from every job post), we are undermining our own profession by allowing the unprepared/naive among us to get screwed, while lowering the perceived market rate and undermining the profession in the process.

Originally written by Kevin Solan on November 7, 2009 10:17 AM This thread, or one like it, should be made sticky and provide a forum for comment on all posted jobs so that there may be a modicum of consensus on how to respond to such ads. [...]

I have advocated that for a long time. There has to be pressure exerted on these agencies. If the thread were sticky, and not open to all, comments by translators could be left so this rates issue is publicly addressed by individual translators.

I don't understand why nobody rushes to agree to this.

Originally written by Kevin Solan on November 7, 2009 4:17 PM This thread, or one like it, should be made sticky and provide a forum for comment on all posted jobs so that there may be a modicum of consensus on how to respond to such ads.

The site statistics page shows that the average daily number of jobs posted on the Job Board (for the last 30 days) is 50.

So you propose to run a thread in which 50 new jobs will be discussed day after day? We already have several threads along these lines, but they get started every few weeks or months, whenever someone needs to vent their anger, and they basically evolve around one specific job posting. So we now want to multiply that by 50 on a daily basis? In addition to the Hall of Fame and Shame?

And what would that modicum of consensus on how to respond to such ads be for freelancers bidding from China and those bidding from Norway? (In a poll we ran, 38% said "Yes, I often translate into a foreign language") How many times can we repeat, in how many threads which apparently no one reads, that whenever Norwegians are unhappy with $0.10/word, the Chinese are happy with $0.01/word?

Do Chinese and Norwegian teachers or taxi drivers have a modicum of consensus on how much to charge their customers? This is already absurd as it is. Let's not compound the absurd.

Originally written by Jane Lamb-Ruiz on November 7, 2009 4:44 PM.; ....If the thread were sticky, and not open to all...

??? ???

If the thread were sticky, and not open to all, comments by translators could be left so this rates issue is publicly addressed by individual translators.

I literally don't understand what you area saying in the "not open to all" part.  could you explain, Jane?

Maxi

Originally written by Jacek K. on November 7, 2009 5:08 PM So you propose to run a thread in which 50 new jobs will be discussed day after day? We already have several threads along these lines

With respect, Jacek, considering the only thread I found on the subject had not been contributed to for almost a year, I think your point is irrelevant. For the majority of ads that do not raise any concern, no-one would post about them.

they get started every few weeks or months, whenever someone needs to vent their anger, and they basically evolve around one specific job posting.

That would be even better - a specific thread for a specific ad. At the moment though, they just get swallowed up in the mass of other threads and cannot be specifically back-linked to/from the ad concerned.

So we now want to multiply that by 50 on a daily basis? In addition to the Hall of Fame and Shame?

The HFS is entirely different. And as you pointed out above, they get started every few weeks or months, so rather than being "multiplied by 50" (why the need to exaggerate?) or "in addition" (to which I see no particular problem anyway - isn't every new thread or post "in addition"?), they would just be better organised.

And what would that modicum of consensus on how to respond to such ads be for freelancers bidding from China and those bidding from Norway? ...

Again, I don't see how that point is relevant. An ad for audio translation from French to Norwegian will hardly get much response from China. Otherwise a lot of Norwegians would have to change their rates. Or their job.

Do Chinese and Norwegian teachers or taxi drivers have a modicum of consensus on how much to charge their customers?

Within their particuar markets and specialisations, of course they do.

This is already absurd as it is. Let's not compound the absurd.

I have the distinct impression you simply didn't understand the initial suggestion. And of course, anyone who isn't interested in contributing doesn't need to.

Yes, I will explain. In the same way the Hall of Fame and Shame is not open to "just anyone".

BUT, it would be SPECIFICALLY targeted at allowing the posting of comment re terms (price or deadline or subject matter) proposed or the wording of the offers. Sometimes the Terms are awful, and sometimes one can't even understand the offers.

The Hall of Shame and Fame is fine for post-facto commenting on "bad experiences". It is not a forum for SPECIFICALLY allowing comments by responders - those who answer offers -  to comment on the inappropriateness of some aspect or other of the Job Offer before or "pre facto"....that is where I feel more comments are needed.

Now, is that clearer?

////

Jacek, my friend....could you possibly discuss merits and demerits at a higher level rather than drilling down so much? I know you can provide valuable contributions to this discussion without being so drilled down....

Originally written by Kevin Solan on November 7, 2009 5:59 PM ... considering the only thread I found on the subject had not been contributed to for almost a year....

here's one running thread among others with recent discussions on the topic http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/thread-view.asp?threadid=14586&start=51

Nothing prevents us from posting new and recurring threads in the Jobs, Outsourcers & Payment forum about specific job offers or resuscitating old ones (like this one), and that might be more effective than a single running forum since people tend to check newer threads rather spend time searching for older ones not shown on the "Quick look at TC" page. I've even been known to bump them up somewhat articificially when I felt such threads were disappearing too fast from that page! We can simply individually and collectively decide that whenever we find a job offer that isn't "up to par", we'll systematically start a thread about it or resurrect an old one on the same topic (as I and some others have been doing).

One alternative could be to have a new dedicated forum entitled "Comments on job offers", with a possible link automatically shown on each of the job offers (though that would be a decision for Anatoly to make - and I have no idea whether that would even be feasible?

But such threads must absolutely be "open to all" (unlike the HF&S), otherwise we're only preaching to the already convinced among the small "club" of usual posters and seasoned translators, while those who need the insight/advice/warning the most are the less experienced without access to "closed" fora.) 

... cannot be specifically back-linked to/from the ad concerned.

From what I understand, we're not supposed to refer openly to any specific person/outsourcer in fora other than HF&S. Or am I mistaken? But enough info can be given in our posts so others can easily find the job offer concerned.

dominique

PS @Kevin: I also cursed my screen when I read the offer you discussed earlier!