Home Home Home
Home
Translation Jobs
Hide Panels
Üye Girişi

Kullanıcı Adı

Şifre
Yardım almak için tıklayın
Site Dilini Seç
TRTR
ENEnglish
Forums
You are currently browsing as a guest. Please log on to access more features.
Moderators
Jacek K., Nanna Mercer
Message format
Thread information
Last Activity November 21, 2009 12:16 PM

537 replies
17419 viewings

Site Search
Notification

Toggle e-mail notification

XML RSS Feed
Recommend Us
stumbleupon|digg|del.icio.us|reddit|facebook
Legend
Posted Messages:
5000 5000
2000 2000
1000 1000
500 500
100 100
25 25
Colour Coding:
  • Administrator
  • Forum Moderator
  • Registered User
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.Mark Twain
Page: 1 2 3 454
Back Reply
« Thread »
Posted:
June 6, 2008 11:28 AM
Post #147713
John Bunch
Photo
Expert
1000500100100100
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 1807
Joined: February 1, 2008
Location: United States
 
Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
As a translator and writer, I value free speech as one of the highest values. As an American, I value the U.S. Constitution and especially the 1st Amendment, which gives me the right to express unpopular opinions, and even (if I so chose) exotic and even undemocratic speech.

Recent developments in the West, particularly Canada and France, have made me wonder whether free speech is dying in the West.

Consider this story, about Canadian conservative Mark Steyn. Steyn is a pundit and writer and he is incisive and funny and likes to "stir things up". As this story points out, Steyn is now on trial in Canada for writing two articles. Think about it: his "crime" was to put words on paper, which offended someone (he wrote articles critical of Islam and Muslims). He was hauled before what has been referred to as a far-Left "kangaroo court" in Canada, to face these charges for his "crime" of writing articles.

Here is the article on this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2025924/posts

As liberals like to say: "chilling" for free speech in Canada.

The Brigit Bardot case in France is similar: fines for words.

Are we in the West heading toward totalitarian rule (even if it is in a softer form than the USSR with its gulags) ? Will free speech in future be a thing of the past ? It appears that in Canada and France, it already is.

Thank God for the U.S. Constitution and 1st Amendment !

[Edited by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 11:31 AM]

Reply|Quote|Edit
Posted:
June 6, 2008 11:51 AM
Post #147714—in reply to #147713
Dodo Kaipdodo
TC Master
Photo
Expert
100050025
Mother tongue: Lithuanian
Posts: 1544
Joined: August 8, 2007
Location: Lithuania
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 11:28 AM
Thank God for the U.S. Constitution and 1st Amendment !


Please! Do you really belive there is any freedom of speech left anywhere?
Human Rights and Freedom of Speech are mutually exclusive. No amendments can amend that.

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 11:55 AM
Post #147716—in reply to #147713
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)

Originally written by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 5:28 PM

Thank God for the U.S. Constitution and 1st Amendment !

Yup. As Noam says, the US has the most free press in the world. His opinion on France: Post #124548.

Jacek


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 12:27 PM
Post #147721—in reply to #147716
David Kallans
Photo
Expert
10005001001002525
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 1752
Joined: April 13, 2007
Location: United States
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on June 6, 2008 11:55 AM

Originally written by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 5:28 PM
Thank God for the U.S. Constitution and 1st Amendment !

Yup. As Noam says, the US has the most free press in the world. His opinion on France: Post #124548.

Jacek

It depends on what you mean by "free" as well as by "press."  The mainstream press (e.g. New York Times and CNN) is largely free from official governmental interference, but it is largely controlled by narrow corporate interests who dramaticly restrict what is covered and the range of opinions presented.

But more importantly, "freedom of the press" is only one aspect of the more expansive concpet of "freedom of expression," which includes, among other things, the right to express oneself in art.  In that respect, the U.S. is one of the MOST restrictive of western countries, as works which address sex or eroticism are subject to many constraints that inhibit creativity.  Countries such as the Netherlands and Germany allow a wider range of artistic expression.


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 12:51 PM
Post #147728—in reply to #147721
John Bunch
Photo
Expert
1000500100100100
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 1807
Joined: February 1, 2008
Location: United States
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Well, that is true. I agree - having lived in Europe - that the Europeans have some freedoms that we don't have here. Try walking down the street in any U.S. town of city with a beer in your hand and see what happens, if you disagree with me (whereas, you can do that in Germany, etc.). 

I think that it is true that freedoms vary from nation to nation. But I find that there is a difference between let's say, artistic expression, and political speech. 

Example: I could create a billboard with explicit sexual content on it and then try to put it up here in a U.S. city. I probably would not be able to, due to "community standards" laws and norms. But I am o.k. with that. 

But what Canada is doing to me really is "chilling": trying a man for the "crime" of writing a magazine article, which no one is "forced" to see or view (you would have to go out of your way to buy the magazine and then read his articles). His "crime", in modern Canada, was to express an unpopular thought, in print. 

I think that there is a difference between the print medium that not everyone is forced to view, and let's say, public "artistic" speech, which can be more prescribed. 


[Edited by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 12:53 PM]

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 1:05 PM
Post #147730—in reply to #147721
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by David Kallans on June 6, 2008 6:27 PM

It depends on what you mean by .... "press." 

Not the mainstream press; the press I mostly quote from.

"freedom of expression," .... In that respect, the U.S. is one of the MOST restrictive of western countries,

Yes.

Jacek


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 1:59 PM
Post #147731—in reply to #147721
Dodo Kaipdodo
TC Master
Photo
Expert
100050025
Mother tongue: Lithuanian
Posts: 1544
Joined: August 8, 2007
Location: Lithuania
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by David Kallans on June 6, 2008 12:27 PM
The mainstream press is largely free from official governmental interference


Is it?


...works which address sex or eroticism are subject to many constraints...



Sex? Erotism? You must be kidding! Ask your (USA, GB, СНГ... whatever!) government where does your tax money go... Ask for precise percentage and see what you get. Not "freedom of speech", I suspect...

Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 2:18 PM
Post #147732—in reply to #147713
Jacek K.
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: February 18, 2003
Location: Poland
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by David Kallans on June 6, 2008 6:27 PM

It depends on what you mean by "free" 



At the risk of sounding trivial, I will agree on this one too. Everything is relative...

Below are two rankings:

1) by http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=251&year=2007 which is a Washington-based think tank, according to which the press in Canada, France, etc., is overall as as free as in the United States, and

2) by the Paris-based
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders
 which is more nuanced and actually shows Canada (18) and France (31) with fewer constraints than the United States (48).
2007 press freedom rankings
Jacek
Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 2:34 PM
Post #147733—in reply to #147728
David Kallans
Photo
Expert
10005001001002525
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 1752
Joined: April 13, 2007
Location: United States
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Originally written by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 12:51 PM
Well, that is true. I agree - having lived in Europe - that the Europeans have some freedoms that we don't have here. Try walking down the street in any U.S. town of city with a beer in your hand and see what happens, if you disagree with me (whereas, you can do that in Germany, etc.). 

...

I think that there is a difference between the print medium that not everyone is forced to view, and let's say, public "artistic" speech, which can be more prescribed. 

As for walking with a beer, what you say is true for most American cities, but not in New Orleans, or at least in the French Quarter, (and at least before Katrina hit).

Several problems arise with your differentiation between the print medium and "public artistic speech."  First, you introduced an element of publicness that I did not include; American law censors artistic speech even when made in private for private consumption.  And the "press" is also curtailed on the argumetn that it is foisted upon the public; broadcast television and radio (which is treated as "the press") is censored on the theory that people can unwittingly tune in to offensive material (the Supreme Court held this in a case in which it upheld a fine against a radio station which had aired George Carlin's famous "Seven Dirty Words" bit).

Even more fundamentally, however, is I think you miss the point that free speech is not limited to the press; in fact those are two separate freedoms, and both of which are explicitly protected by the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...").  Note that "freedom of speech"is something different from, and seems to have priority to, freedom of the press.

Art is perhaps the most important field of human expression, for it is there that our humanity can most accurately and movingly be revealed.  Great works of art can echo through the ages, whereas very few newspaper articles are remembered.  And ultimately, there can be no free political speech if there is no free artistic speech.


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Posted:
June 6, 2008 2:35 PM
Post #147734—in reply to #147713
Laurent J Krauland
TC Master
Photo
Mother tongues: German, French
Joined: August 9, 2007
Location: France
 
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)

Originally written by John Bunch on June 6, 2008 11:28 AM


The Brigitte Bardot case in France is similar: fines for words.

Are we in the West heading toward totalitarian rule (even if it is in a softer form than the USSR with its gulags) ? Will free speech in future be a thing of the past ? It appears that in Canada and France, it already is.

Thank God for the U.S. Constitution and 1st Amendment !

John,

I posted a similar article about Internet restrictions in the name of 'common good', it is in French and can be found here. Curiously enough, I also dared to compare these 'vacuum-cleaning' regulations to Stalinism.

It looks like we're heading for a Western society directed by some ilk of political hypercorrectness, the question being: Who will control the controllers? or, more correctly: To whom will the crime benefit?

Laurent K. 


Reply|Quote|Edit|Delete
Page: 1 2 3 454
Back Reply
« Thread »
Anasayfa | Forums | Albums | Search
Recent threads | Today | This Week | Top 25
Forum Statistics | Who's Online | Random Quotes
New TC Mobile | Forum Settings | Log On
TranslatorsCafé.com

Site Dilini Seç English | Español | Daha…

Copyright © 2002—2009 Telif Hakları ANVICA Software Development'a Aittir. Bütün hakları saklıdır.
Gizlilik Politikası. Kullanım Koşulları. Kullanım, Onayınızı Tasdik Eder.
Yorum ve önerileriniz için: TranslatorsCafe.com webmaster
Çevirmenler Dizini, Mütercim-Tercümanlık Büroları.

Forums Disclaimer: The views expressed in the forums are those of the authors and are not necessarily the views of the site owner and/or moderators. If the reader considers a post to cause offence, then she or he should address a complaint to the moderator of the forum concerned. The complaint should be dealt with within 24 hours, but please respect the fact that the moderator may be living in a different time zone. Use of the forums signifies your agreement with the Forum Posting Rules.