Dollar at mercy of central banks By Chris Giles, Economics Editor Published: January 24 2005
During the past few years the US has become dependent, not so much on millions of investors around the globe but on a few individuals in a few of the world's central banks.
In 2003, the most recent year with full international statistics, central banks financed 83 per cent of the US current account deficit, with Asian central banks accounting for 86 per cent of flows.
A similar picture is emerging for 2004. Despite a good start to the year, when the private sector was a large net purchaser of dollar assets, central banks came to the rescue again. The People's Bank of China has let it be known that China increased dollar reserves by $207bn (€159bn) in 2004, financing nearly a third of the US current account deficit, estimated at $650bn.
Self-interest has supported much of this flow of cash. The US has lapped up cheap finance to fund its unquenchable appetite to spend. Asian governments have until now been keen to oblige, in order to keep their currencies from appreciating. But all investors have their limits and they may start worrying about their degree of exposure.
If new official flows to the US were to be curtailed, the dollar would plunge, creating a huge hole in the accounts of central banks holding dollars.
"The risk exposure for Asian central banks is already great," concluded Matthew Higgins and Thomas Klitgaard of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in a recent paper.
In November, Alan Greenspan, US Federal Reserve chairman, suggested foreign investors would reach a limit in their desire to finance the US current account deficit and diversify into other currencies or demand higher US interest rates, "elevating the cost of financing" the deficit and "rendering it increasingly less tenable".
Until recently there had been little evidence to back up these fears but this has begun to change. Members of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries have cut the proportion of deposits held in dollars from 75 per cent to 61.5 per cent in the past three years.
The Bank of Thailand said this month it was considering reducing the proportion of its $50bn reserves held in dollars from 80 per cent to 50 per cent. Russian officials have made similar noises.
A detailed survey out today suggests that central banks are increasingly moving official reserves out of the dollar and into the euro.
Asian central banks are unlikely to pull the plug on dollar assets altogether. But they may be close to ending their willingness to provide cheap financing for an ever increasing US current account deficit. http://news.ft.com/cms/s/bd52ee06-6dad-11d9-ae0d-00000e2511c8.html
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Three of the most important prices in the world economy are set by means other than markets. At the weekend, OPEC declared itself happy with the price of oil. On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve will probably raise American interest rates. And on Friday, the G7 will declare itself unhappy with the price of the dollar.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
The China Price
"The China price." They are the three scariest words in U.S. industry. In general, it means 30% to 50% less than what you can possibly make something for in the U.S. In the worst cases, it means below your cost of materials. Makers of apparel, footware, electric appliances, and plastics products, which have been shutting U.S. factories for decades, know well the futility of trying to match the China price. It has been a big factor in the loss of 2.7 million manufacturing jobs since 2000. Meanwhile, America's deficit with China keeps soaring to new records. It is likely to pass $150 billion this year. (...)
More innovation. Better goods. Lower prices. Newer plants. America will surely continue to benefit from China's expansion. But unless it can deal with the industrial challenge, it will suffer a loss of economic power and influence. Can America afford the China price? It's the question U.S. workers, execs, and policymakers urgently need to ask. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_49/b3911401.htm
EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Brussels has launched a pan-European anti-smoking campaign of 72 million euro. At the same time, the EU gives out about a billion euro in subsidies for tobacco producers every year.
Statistics show that around 650,000 EU citizens die in relation to smoking annually, while EU member states pay about 100 billion euro per year in tobacco-related health care costs.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The Overstretch Myth By David H. Levey and Stuart S. Brown
From Foreign Affairs, March/April 2005
Summary: The United States' current account deficit and foreign debt are not dire threats to its global position, as would-be Cassandras warn. U.S. power is firmly grounded on economic superiority and financial stability that will not end soon.
David H. Levey recently retired after 19 years as Managing Director of Moody's Sovereign Ratings Service. Stuart S. Brown is Professor of Economics and International Relations in the Moynihan Institute of Global Affairs at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs.
The richest country (Denmark) pays 61x the median pay of the poorest country (Moldova), yet:
Pay gap in Europe decreasing
03.03.2005 By Lucia Kubosova
The gap in salaries across Europe is narrowing, as the richest states adapt to global competition and the poorest Europeans enjoy a rapid pay rise due to economic growth and inward investments in their countries.
The revelations come as part of the study "Pay in Europe 2005", published on Wednesday (2 March) by the Federation of European Employers (FedEE).
Its authors refer to the case of Denmark and Romania. "While in 2001, hourly pay in Denmark was 39 times greater than in Romania, but by February 1st this year the gap had narrowed to just 22 times. The reason for this is that during the period 2001-5, hourly pay in Denmark has risen by only 18%, whilst in Romania it has risen by 115%".
Among the reasons behind a general trend towards a narrowing pay gap in Europe, the report mentions that there is a more coherent labour market in the EU countries due to greater mobility.
Also, Western European countries have reduced their labour costs in the face of global competition, while poorer states in the east have enjoyed significant investment and economic growth, leading to pay rises for their citizens.
The paper also mentions the declining power of trade unions as one of the reasons for the decreasing gap.
* * *
Child poverty on the rise in rich nations
The report by UNICEF, released on 1 March, shows that the proportion of children living in poverty has risen in 17 of the 24 industrialised countries examined.
The report defines child poverty as children living in households with an income below 50 percent of the national median.
The figures show that of the EU countries surveyed, only France, Greece and the UK showed a reduction in child poverty.
In Poland, Luxembourg and the Czech Republic, by contrast, the child poverty rate rose by 4.3 percent, 4.2 percent and 4.1 percent respectively.
EU countries with the highest child poverty rates are Italy with 16.6% of children living in poverty; Ireland with 15.7 percent and Portugual with 15.6%.
At the other end of the poverty scale, nordic countries do the best. Denmark tops the league with 2.4 percent followed by Finland with a 2.8 percent child poverty rate. http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=18562
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on March 3, 2005 8:15 AM The Overstretch Myth By David H. Levey and Stuart S. Brown
From Foreign Affairs, March/April 2005
U.S. power is firmly grounded on economic superiority and financial stability that will not end soon.
Warren Buffett, one of the world's most successful investors, has launched his most withering attack to date on the US trade deficit, describing Americans as "rich spending junkies" who could turn into a nation of "sharecroppers".
Mr Buffett said in the last 10 years foreign powers and their citizens had accrued about $3 trillion worth of US debt and assets such as equities and real estate. At current rates, he predicted that in another 10 years' time the net ownership of the US by outsiders would amount to $11 trillion.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
President Bush's nomination of Paul Wolfowitz to lead the World Bank has garnered much controversy. Yet, Wolfowitz could hardly do more damage than the outgoing bank president, Jim Wolfensohn. His personal failings and misguided policies have muddled the bank's mission and highlighted the hypocrisy of its rich shareholder nations.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
GUESS who's paying for America's spending binge - for the ballooning credit card bills, the scramble for homes, the country's gaping budgetary hole? Poor countries have become the financiers of the United States, fueling one of the most extravagant consumption drives in world history.
From 1996 to 2004, the American current account deficit - which includes the trade deficit as well as net interest and dividend payments - grew to $666 billion from $120 billion, swelling the nation's demand for foreign financing by $546 billion.
The cash has come mostly from what the International Monetary Fund defines as emerging markets or developing countries - nations that have piled up mountains of cash even though most of their citizens are poor. High on the list is China, whose per-capita gross domestic product of $1,300 last year was a thirtieth that of the United States. Others are Russia, where G.D.P. per head was $4,100, and India, where it barely topped $600.
The current accounts of developing countries swung from a deficit of $88 billion in 1996 to a surplus of $336 billion last year - a $424 billion change that has covered some four-fifths of the increase in the deficit of the United States.
This pattern troubles some policy makers in the United States. In speeches in March and April, Ben S. Bernanke, the Federal Reserve governor nominated by President Bush to be chief economic adviser, argued that a main reason for America's swelling external deficit is "the very substantial shift in the current accounts of developing and emerging-market nations, a shift that has transformed these countries from net borrowers on international capital markets to large net lenders."
The poor-country money, Mr. Bernanke said, pushed the current account of the United States deeper into the red. As the money arrived, it first lifted stock prices, encouraging both consumption and investment. When stocks tanked, it moved to the bond market, fueling the housing boom and yet more spending.
There's nothing inherently wrong with taking money from poor places - it's not as if the United States is stealing it. Developing countries are providing the funds willingly.
But it is rather odd. Conventional economic thought suggests that funds should flow the other way. Capital-rich industrial nations like the United States, where workers already have a large stock of capital goods to work with - like high-tech factories and advanced information technology networks - should be sending money to places rich in labor but with a meager capital stock.
Developing countries, of course, use this money to grow out of poverty, investing in their own factories and schools. And precisely because capital is scarce and labor abundant, money invested in these countries should achieve a higher return.
"For the developing world to be lending large sums on net to the mature industrial economies is quite undesirable as a long-run proposition," Mr. Bernanke said.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 7093 Joined: August 12, 2002 Location: China
How Cold and Beastly THEY Are!
"Nations that have piled up mountains of cash even though their people are poor": I love it! You can also note that if those beastly governments and their heartless central banks stop buy US Government paper, the dollar crashes and the US won't be importing very much at all anymore, throwing their own economies into a tailspin.
The bottomline is that the vendor nations are lending the client the money to buy their products and it's anybody's guess how much longer this will go on.
But the part about the mountains of cash towering above the hungry masses makes me feel so much more innocent of any wrongdoing on Our part.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
In case you are not up to date:
What is Live 8?
Live 8 is a series of concerts and events across the world which are being staged to highlight the problem of global poverty. It's a chance for ordinary people to call on world leaders at this year's G8 summit and tell them to put a stop to the needless deaths of 30,000 children every single day.
On 6th July 2005, the leaders of Great Britain, the USA, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia will meet at Gleneagles in Scotland to talk about world affairs, including Africa. They will be presented with a workable plan to double aid, drop the debt and make trade laws fair.
The G8 summit is our opportunity to demand that the world's most influential leaders take action now.
Live 8 has organised concerts in Philadelpia, Berlin, London, Rome, Paris and Edinburgh, with 100 artists, a million spectators, two billion viewers and one message: Make Poverty History.
Too Much Money A global savings glut is good for growth -- but risks are mounting
[snip] Look around the world, and extra money is piling up in all sorts of places. Japanese corporations are recording record profits, but not doing much spending. Chinese companies are on an investment tear, but the country is getting so much money from exports that it has billions to spare, including $18.5 billion that China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC) bid for Unocal. The surge in oil prices -- now about $60 a barrel -- is giving oil-producing countries such as Russia and Saudi Arabia far more money than they can use right away. And the aging workers of Europe are building nest eggs for an uncertain future.
The International Monetary Fund predicts that in 2005 the worldwide savings rate should hit its highest level in at least two decades. Surprisingly, even in the profligate U.S., businesses have been accumulating huge sums as undistributed corporate profits -- running at a record annual rate of $542 billion in the first quarter -- have almost doubled in the past two years. This corporate hoarding explains why the U.S. national savings rate, which includes governments and businesses as well as households, rose to 14.7% of national income in the first quarter, up from 12.8% two years ago. ...
Skittishness But the savings glut is creating new risks for the global economy, which is having a tough time absorbing the unanticipated flood of funds. Instead of going into productive investments, cheap money may be overheating spending and sending asset prices soaring too high, setting the stage for a future bust. "The odds of a catastrophic scenario have gone up," says Kenneth S. Rogoff, former chief economist at the IMF and a professor at Harvard University.
History shows that excess liquidity can disappear overnight if investors start getting skittish and lose confidence, causing severe disruptions to markets that have gotten used to cheap money. A unexpected rise in inflation or interest rates could tank the bond market and burst the global housing bubble, which now stretches from Barcelona to Shanghai to San Francisco. Doubt about the U.S. ability to finance its huge trade deficit could trigger a steep downturn in the dollar and a monetary crisis. And China's factory-building spree may leave it saddled with excess capacity for years to come.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on July 2, 2005 3:32 PM
COVER STORY
Too Much Money
Skittishness But the savings glut is creating new risks for the global economy, which is having a tough time absorbing the unanticipated flood of funds. Instead of going into productive investments, cheap money may be overheating spending and sending asset prices soaring too high, setting the stage for a future bust. "The odds of a catastrophic scenario have gone up," says Kenneth S. Rogoff, former chief economist at the IMF and a professor at Harvard University. History shows that excess liquidity can disappear overnight if investors start getting skittish and lose confidence, causing severe disruptions to markets that have gotten used to cheap money. A unexpected rise in inflation or interest rates could tank the bond market and burst the global housing bubble, which now stretches from Barcelona to Shanghai to San Francisco. Doubt about the U.S. ability to finance its huge trade deficit could trigger a steep downturn in the dollar and a monetary crisis. And China's factory-building spree may leave it saddled with excess capacity for years to come.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The same with "expensive money." It means "at high interest rates." Here is how someone explains the difference with "tight money":
> By a "tight money" policy, I meant an attempt to control the rate >of growth of the money supply. The period I was referring to-- >of a conservative government in Australia--was from 1975 >till 1982; Leigh's example of a high-interest rate "tight >money" policy is of 1988 and 1989, when monetary targetting >had been abandoned. I wouldn't call the policy in that period >a "tight money policy" either, but "expensive money". http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/pkt/1995m12-c/mbox1995m12-c.txt
Children’s talent for language is strangely limited – they’re good at learning language, but not so good at knowing what to say and what not to say.
“Why don’t you get some expensive money?” – three-year-old daughter, when told by her mother that she could get a small toy, but that the ones she had asked for were too expensive
A trader from Fubon in Taiwan accidentally bought NT$7 billion ($223 million) worth of shares yesterday (see chart of yesterday's intraday price chart for the TWSE Index above, note the spike). It's called a "fat finger" error, because it is like an error caused by mistakenly typing letters due to a fat finger.
from Bloomberg: The trader, who wasn't named, will be fired
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The Trade-And-Aid Myth History suggests that internal economic policies fight poverty best —By Dani Rodrik, TomPaine.com
August 18, 2005 Issue
G8 nations talk as if the pairing of free trade and aid is the key to economic salvation for every country struggling with the realities of poverty. But providing aid, relieving debt, and increasing developing countries' access to privileged markets are not the answers to lessening economic hardship, Dani Rodrik argues on TomPaine.com. As the cases of Vietnam and Mexico demonstrate, it's internal policies that do the most to boost economies. (...)
A broader global trend illustrates that, as with Vietnam and Mexico, the countries that institute strong economic development programs internally succeed in improving economic growth and alleviating poverty. South Korea, China, and India all pulled their economies up by their bootstraps, according to Rodrik, and all three have flourishing economies today.
Rather than continuing to focus on opening market access to cultivate trade and providing aid to developing countries, the economically powerful should, Rodrik claims, work at making it easier for individual nations to improve their own economic development policies. He urges rich countries to help this process by sharing financial information, expanding the ability for citizens of developing nations to work abroad, and loosening WTO regulations. -- Rose Miller
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: How Cold and Beastly THEY Are!
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on June 7, 2005 3:02 PM
Originally written by Arthur Borges on June 7, 2005 2:50 PM
....if those beastly governments and their heartless central banks stop buy US Government paper...
Your friend China and our friends' friend Russia featuring prominently among them:
I could hardly believe my son's report that "people have to avoid getting sick in China." The latest WHO global health report leaves no illusions. But I would lie if I said that there is any face of communism anywhere that truly surprises me.
Healthcare falls short, Chinese tell leaders
By David Lague International Herald Tribune
SATURDAY, AUGUST 20, 2005
[snip] Top government advisers, scholars and the state-controlled media are openly criticizing the ruling Communist Party for failing to avert a growing crisis in public health care. These critics allege that paying patients are treated as cash cows while the poor are denied access to proper medical care.
Critics blame the government for abandoning the public health system to market forces since economic reforms were begun in 1978, leading to what they say are exorbitant charges for medical services, wasteful overservicing and widespread overprescription of drugs.
A hard-hitting report issued earlier this month by the Development Research Center, one of the government's top advisory bodies, concluded that the switch to a user-pays health system has been a failure.
It noted "to our shame" that the World Health Organization ranked the Chinese health system as one of the most unfair in the world. "Most of the medical needs of society cannot be met because of economic reasons," the report said. "Poor people cannot even enjoy the most basic health care." ...
Li said one measure of medical overservicing revealed in her research was that an average of 50 percent of babies born in Chinese hospitals were delivered by Caesarean section. In some hospitals, that figure was as high as 70 percent.
The main reason for this was that hospitals could only charge a relatively low fee set by the government for live births, but Caesarean sections could be billed at a much higher rate, as surgical procedures. And these procedures allowed hospitals and doctors to manage their time more efficiently than natural births. ...
Before 1978, only 10 percent of births were by Caesarean section.
Critics note that the government share of national health spending had plummeted from close to 100 percent during the planned economy period to about 16 percent today as the government steadily withdrew from providing health services.
By comparison, public spending accounts for about 44 percent of health outlays in the United States and an average of more than 70 percent in other advanced industrial countries. ...
Health experts agree that one of the major achievements of China's health system before 1978 was the provision of basic medical care for all urban and rural Chinese.
These services, along with an emphasis on preventive medicine and national campaigns to eradicate endemic disease, contributed to an increase in average Chinese life expectancy from 35 years in 1949 to 68 years by 1978.
Despite a dramatic increase in prosperity and living standards in China since 1978, average life expectancy had increased by only 3.5 years, about half the gains in longevity in Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Korea over the same period. ...
One other serious consequence of stress on the health system has been the return of deadly diseases including tuberculosis and schistosomiasis that had largely been eradicated before 1978. ...
in the absence of widespread medical insurance, many Chinese, particularly the 800 million living in rural areas, cannot afford treatment when they are ill.
Critics cite China's official 2003 national health survey, which found that about 64 percent of people in big cities who should have been treated by a doctor as inpatients chose not to do so because of the cost. In rural areas, that figure was more than 73 percent.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 7093 Joined: August 12, 2002 Location: China
Rosemary's Babies
Folks are indeed having problems facing medical care costs in China.
But Caesarean deliveries are rising in France too as private sector care tries to optimise use of obstetrical facilities and physicians want to be home in time for dinner with lots of undisturbed sleep.
Then too, I would suspect that recourse to labour-inducing molecules would be very limited if the patient is low-income, though surely routine now in China's upscale private hospitals.
Mother tongue: Italian Joined: September 23, 2003 Location: Italy
(removed)
RE: How Cold and Beastly THEY Are!
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on August 29, 2005 4:20 PM
I could hardly believe my son's report that "people have to avoid getting sick in China." The latest WHO global health report leaves no illusions. But I would lie if I said that there is any face of communism anywhere that truly surprises me.
It depends. From m personal memories there: the military hospital in which we, foreign students of the Beiyu, were taken to have AIDS test, was as clean and equipped as many Italian hospitals would have ever dreamed about. On the other side of this not so golden medal were however facts like some Naxi groups in Yunnan having the nearest hospital at 60 km (and the street was so bad that one should leave the car after the first traits and go on walking). No wonder that the life span of these people was extremely short.
But I'm afraid this is a disease both of communism and capitalism. My cousin has just come back from Guatemala, a country whose childhood mortality rate is one of the highest in the world because of lack of proper medical treatments (we are speaking about native people, of course) and where going to Miami for an appendicitis operation it's not a trouble for for wealthy people.
Anna Maria
p.s. out of curiosity: what is your son doing in China?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States is the largest supplier of weapons to developing nations, delivering more than $9.6 billion in arms to Near East and Asian countries last year.
The total worldwide value of all agreements to sell arms last year was close to $37 billion, and nearly 59 percent of the agreements were to sell weapons to developing nations, according to the Congressional Research Service report. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Weapons-Trade.html
Mother tongue: Italian Joined: September 23, 2003 Location: Italy
(removed)
RE: How Cold and Beastly THEY Are!
Originally written by Anna Maria Paoluzzi on August 30, 2005 11:58 AM
...was as clean and equipped as many Italian hospitals would have ever dreamed about.
Incidentally, yesterday a woman has died in childbirth here in Italy. No place in the hospital. Is this a fair price to pay for miracles such as "global economy" and "free market"?
Mother tongue: Spanish Posts: 4572 Joined: May 9, 2003 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on August 31, 2005 1:57 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States is the largest supplier of weapons to developing nations, delivering more than $9.6 billion in arms to Near East and Asian countries last year.
And what about the amount of weapons sold within the US? A few days ago two cart retrievers (18 and 20 years old ) were killed in a parking lot at a Wal-Mart store here in Phoenix. The guy that killed them was a middle aged mentally deranged individual who, however, had a collection of weapons in his home. The Arizona Governor has started an investigation to find out how a wacko could have been allowed to purchase and keep those weapons.
Though Europe has been sluggish and the global economy hasn’t quite lived up to last year’s lively pace of growth, world GDP is still growing at an above-average clip. Even Japan, stuck in an economic quagmire for the past decade, has begun looking perky.
But dark clouds have been gathering on the horizon for some time. Emerging-market economies, particularly in Asia, are running high current-account surpluses, keeping their economic fires stoked with a steady stream of exports, especially to America. In mirror image, America’s current-account deficits have soared past 5% of GDP. Household savings have dwindled to negligible levels as Americans have run down assets and taken on debt to keep the spending binge going. Yet if the American consumer falters, as things stand now, the rest of the world will tumble too.
Moreover, economists are increasingly worried that America’s economic health (and by extension the world’s) rests on a housing market that looks decidedly bubbly. When the bubble bursts, they fear, the whole thing could come crashing down.
But if economists are agreed that America’s debt levels are dangerous, they cannot agree on whom to blame.
...
The IMF report offers an explanation. What the world is suffering from is not so much a savings glut as an investment deficit, in both rich and poor countries. In emerging markets and oil-exporting nations, still feeling the lingering effects of the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98, demand for capital has failed to keep up with supply. Scrimping consumers have instead sent their money to the West.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 7093 Joined: August 12, 2002 Location: China
I love it!
...the part about "scrimping consumers" sending their money to the West. Sure, take a nice middle class wage-earner who sees his cost of living double in a matter of weeks till he's dipping into savings to cover daily essentials and this is the guy who's turning his baht kip and rupiah over into Swiss francs? With all the banking fees and commissions they charge?
The World Bank cannot go where its research is leading it
[snip] THE cover carries a fresco by Diego Rivera, a Mexican revolutionary and artist. The text within bemoans the many ways, overt and covert, in which elites protect their interests and hold down the poor. In response, it advocates policies that will challenge the privileged and empower the disenfranchised. The World Bank's latest World Development Report (WDR), published this week, is heady stuff: more than 200 pages arguing that the Bank itself, as well as the governments it helps, should put “equity” at the forefront of their thinking.
The WDR is not quite as radical as this sounds. By “equity”, it means equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome (except that people who squander their opportunities entirely should be spared the worst of outcomes). A person's fate should be decided by effort, talent and luck, not race, caste, gender or inherited privilege. Philosophers will wonder why the talented, who did not earn their God-given abilities, deserve their rewards any more than the well-born, who did not choose their parents. Such cavils aside, there is little here to which a liberal could object. (...)
It shows that failures in the markets for credit, insurance, land and human capital result in underinvestment by the poor, overinvestment by the rich and a less efficient economy. To understand this, it is necessary to appreciate how markets should work in an ideal world—because if they worked as economists would like, they would deliver much of the equity the WDR would advocate.
In a perfect credit market, the WDR points out, there should be no connection between wealth and investment. A free market in capital breaks the link between the amount people own and the amount they can invest. In such a market, anyone can borrow or lend as much as they want at the going rate of interest.
In reality, the rich and poor borrow on very different terms. Much of the research cited in the WDR is several years old, but this is an area in which economic power shifts slowly. According to a 1989 study of six villages in the south of India, the rich were typically asked to pay interest rates of 33%, while the poor borrowed at rates of over 100%, when they could borrow at all. This is partly because lenders ask for collateral that only the well-off can provide.
In addition, banks and other lenders maintain a spread between the rate they pay on deposits and the rate they charge on loans. This is, of course, how they make their money. But in poor countries, this spread widens to alarming proportions. The same 1989 report found that India's informal “finance corporations”—which act much like banks, although they cannot issue cheques or transfer funds—paid 12% at most on deposits of less than a year, while charging at least 48% on loans.
(...)
The Bank's solutions to these particular inefficiencies are by now familiar: extending microfinance, for example, or giving the poor formal title to their land and property so they can offer it as collateral. But it also argues that the best policies for fighting poverty might involve “redistributions of influence, advantage or subsidies away from dominant groups”. (...)
In the end, the WDR would probably disappoint the revolutionary who provided its cover image. The Bank is in no position to overturn dominant elites.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 7093 Joined: August 12, 2002 Location: China
Sweetsop
These pied pipers have drummed a tune to enchant the Mouse that I am enough for me to happily drown myself in the sea but then the Dragon of my rising sign just wants to breathe fire all over that report.
Truth (to me) is, every country is operated by its handful of families through a firm hand over the mechanisms of government and wealth. But sure, it would be a less beastly world if these families could ease up on the rate of wealth/power accumulation.
Summary: In a major new work, Benjamin Friedman presents a compelling moral case for growth-oriented economic policies. But even he sometimes needs reminding that the kind of growth matters as much as the amount.
Joseph E. Stiglitz, University Professor of Economics at Columbia University, has served as Chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisers and Chief Economist of the World Bank. His books include "The Roaring Nineties" and "Globalization and Its Discontents."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Now which empire?
Eco-Labels Could Face WTO Ban By Staff, Environment News Service Energy-efficiency, recycled content, and other green consumer info could be banned from product labels if proposals before the World Trade Organization succeed, warns Friends of the Earth UK. "Countries including Korea, the United States and China are claiming that eco-labeling damages their competitiveness and acts as a barrier to trade," the Environment News Service reports. Fortunately, it looks like disagreements on other issues may bring the upcoming WTO summit in Hong Kong to a halt, like earlier meetings in Cancun and Seattle. -- Leif Utne http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2005/2005-10-21-04.asp (via Utne Reader)
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Outsourcing in eastern Europe
The rise of nearshoring
Dec 1st 2005 | BUDAPEST, TALLINN AND WARSAW From The Economist print edition
Ex-communist Europe is grabbing a lucrative niche in the global outsourcing business
[snip] In the Czech Republic alone, that has prompted companies such as DHL, Siemens and Lufthansa recently to move big data-processing operations there. “The quality of work is world-class. It matches and sometimes even surpasses the best we do in India,” says Amitabh Chaudhry, chief operating officer of Progeon, a division of India's Infosys IT group that deals with business-process outsourcing. It has opened a centre in the Czech city of Brno, with roughly 100 people working in 13 languages. Mr Chaudhry also highlights the friendly time-zone, good political and regulatory environment, multilingual workers and “cultural affinity”. ...
At a recent outsourcing conference in Budapest organised by Ms Gulyás's firm, a bunch of consultants and providers swirled round Jackie Raybould, a director of SCC, a $3 billion company that is considering moving its expert multilingual IT support for big international companies from call-centres in London and southern Europe to somewhere like Hungary. “There's a ready pool of IT-literate, multilingual graduates. But the management experience isn't as developed,” says Ms Raybould. ...
Call-centres are rather better placed, as central Europe's language skills give it a big advantage over most other locations. German, French and English are all widely enough spoken to create a good pool of potential workers. And other languages can be learnt quickly. One Bulgarian call-centre, for example, reckons that it takes only four months to teach German-speaking employees to answer calls in Dutch as well. http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_VNQGNDP
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
China signals reserves switch away from dollar By Geoff Dyer in Shanghai and Andrew Balls in Washington Published: January 5 2006 China indicated on Thursday it could begin to diversify its rapidly growing foreign exchange reserves away from the US dollar and government bonds – a potential shift with significant implications for global financial and commodity markets.
Economists estimate that more that 70 per cent of the reserves are invested in US dollar assets, which has helped to sustain the recent large US deficits. If China were to stop acquiring such a large proportion of dollars with its reserves – currently accumulating at about $15bn (€12.4bn) a month – it could put heavy downward pressure on the greenback. http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f39fa8e4-7e25-11da-8ef9-0000779e2340.html
* * *
Global malaise in 2006? —Joseph E Stiglitz
The almighty American consumer had another banner year in 2005, helping sustain global economic growth, albeit at a slower pace than in 2004. As in recent years, he consumed at or above his income level, and the United States as a whole spent well beyond its means, borrowing from the rest of the world at a feverish pace in 2005 — more than $2 billion a day. A year ago, most pundits argued that this was unsustainable. It evidently was sustainable, at least for one more year. But it nonetheless remains true that whatever is unsustainable will not be sustained, which creates great risks for the US and global economy in 2006. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005%5C12%5C31%5Cstory_31-12-2005_pg3_3
The study reveals that Germany, which is the EU's largest economy, is currently only the 11th-richest of the 15 "old" western European EU member states in terms of income per person.
In 2008, Germany is set to be overtaken by Spain and by 2014 by Italy, which means that Europe's former economic engine would be trailed only by Greece and Portugal.
The right to live and work in another European Union country is enshrined in the club's founding treaty and is one of the four so-called "freedoms" all EU citizens are meant to enjoy. But when the former communist states of the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia and Slovakia joined the EU on May 1, 2004, this basic right was denied them, along with a host of other perks and privileges of EU membership....
It is no coincidence that almost all the states that have opened their borders enjoy relatively high growth rates and lower-than-average unemployment levels, whereas those that have shut off their labor markets from outside competition suffer from low growth and high jobless rates.
It is also unsurprising to learn that economic growth in the new member states, with their low taxes and pro-market policies, is two to three times higher than old EU countries. A paper to be published by the European Commission this week is expected to show the spectacular progress made by the eight countries that shrugged off four decades of communist rule just 15 years ago. Their per capita incomes have risen from 44 percent of the average for the old EU-15 in 1997 to 50 percent last year.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others," proclaimed one of the ruling pigs' edicts in George Orwell's Animal Farm. The EU has been based on a two-tier system ever since the eight former Soviet satellite states joined two years ago; but it is the countries on top that are rapidly slipping down the league and the countries handed second class status just two years ago that are rising the fastest.
Gareth Harding is a freelance journalist based in Brussels.
Italy fell behind the rest of Europe under the Berlusconi government. Between 1996 and 2001, years of center-left government and of the dot-com boom, Italy grew at an annual rate of 2.2 percent while the EU averaged 3.1 percent; in the Berlusconi years, Europe grew by 1.45 percent and Italy by just 0.35 percent. The gap between Italy and Europe grew from 0.9 to 1.1 percent. At the same time between 2001 and 2005, Italy sank from twenty-fourth in the world in competitiveness to forty-seventh, according to World Economic Forum rankings. Productivity and exports have fallen and the standard of living—above average for Europe in 2000—has dropped by 7 percent. Italy is last among the major countries of Europe in research and development, last in investments in technology, last in filing for scientific patents, and last in percentage of university graduates. In short, Italy in the Berlusconi era has become a more provincial and mediocre country. ...
Germany, which was near the bottom with Italy in the past ten years, has undertaken painful reforms that appear to be paying off. As Prodi notes in his 281-page program, Germany has improved its productivity so that its labor cost for each unit of goods produced went up by only 1 percent since 2000. In Italy labor costs per unit went up by 20 percent.
[snip] For several of those decades, Mr [John Kenneth] Galbraith—much to the chagrin of his academic colleagues—could claim to be the best-known economist in the world. His books, more than 40 of them, were spectacularly successful. All this made him an extraordinary public intellectual. But for many, particularly on America's left, he was much more. Mr Galbraith embodied a creed (a broad scepticism of markets and unshakeable belief in a strong state to balance them) and an era, the 1960s, when that sort of liberalism reached its peak. In many eyes, and perhaps his own, Mr Galbraith was America's Great Liberal Economist, the intellectual heir to John Maynard Keynes, whose contributions to economics are underappreciated by a profession obsessed with mathematical formulae. ...
Mr Galbraith was thus less an economist than a mixture of sociologist, political scientist and journalist. His three most influential books were snapshots of the America of their time. In “American Capitalism” (1952), giant firms were balanced by the “countervailing power” of, for instance, unions; in “The Affluent Society” (1958), massive private consumption coexisted with public decay; in “The New Industrial State” (1967), producers held all the economic power and competition was irrelevant. Time proved especially unkind to that idea.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
AMY GOODMAN: Investigative reporter Greg Palast joins us in the studio right now. He has a brand new book. It's called Armed Madhouse, and the subtitle is Who's Afraid of Osama Wolf?, China Floats, Bush Sinks, the Scheme to Steal ‘08, No Child’s Behind Left and Other Dispatches from the Frontlines of the Class War. Welcome to Democracy Now! (...)
GREG PALAST: Yeah, that's why I wrote a book, because it does link the whole thing together. I mean, I just got back from meeting with Chavez, as you know, and you showed our interview a few weeks ago. He's offered the U.S. $50-a-barrel oil. That’s a third off of what we're paying right now. Now, you would think our president would be down in Caracas kissing Hugo Chavez's behind and saying, “Thank you, thank you for dropping the price of oil by a third, and let's make a deal,” because Chavez wants a deal.
But he's not doing that, our president, even though the high prices are costing about a million jobs right now. And the reason he's not is that what Chavez will not do is that Chavez will not return the money. It's not about petroleum, it's about petrodollars, as I explain in the book. In other words, when George Bush rides around King Abdullah in his little golf cart on the Crawford ranch, he's not trying to get Abdullah's oil. Abdullah can't drink the stuff. He’s got to sell it to us and Japan. But Abdullah takes the money back from the -- when you fill up your SUV, you give your money to Saudi Arabia, the big oil companies, Saudi Arabia. But then he returns it the form of petrodollars, and that is what is funding George Bush’s mad spending spree.
We have a president who has racked up $2 trillion in extra debt, you know, stone sober, apparently. And someone’s got to pay for that. And basically we're paying for it by effectively an oil tax, which is returned to us, because the Gulf states and our other trading partners are now buying up $2 trillion in U.S. Treasury bonds and debt. So, in other words, they're recycling the money back and paying for George Bush's spending spree on ending inheritance taxes, you know, several wars, etc.
Now, Hugo Chavez says, “I'll give you cheap oil, not only to the poor, but to everyone. But I'm not giving you back the money. That money is going to stay in Latin America to build our nations.” And he just withdrew $20 billion out of the U.S. Federal Reserve. You have to understand, this is a punch in the face of the U.S. administration, far more than withholding oil, withholding and withdrawing petrodollars, as I explain in the book, and that's why you have that little nice floater from -- balloon thrown out by Reverend Robertson, Pat Robertson, saying “Hugo Chavez thinks we're trying to assassinate him, and I think we ought to just go and do it,” because they have got to get that -- it’s not that they need that oil, they need that oil money. And if they can't get it, they have to eliminate Hugo Chavez.
(...)
RUSH TRANSCRIPT
This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/15/1334249
GREG PALAST: Is the war in Iraq for oil? Yes, it's about the oil, but not for the oil. In my investigations for Armed Madhouse, I ended up with a story far more fascinating and difficult than I imagined. We didn't go in to grab the oil. Just the opposite. We went in to control the oil and make sure we didn't get it. It goes back to 1920, when the oil companies sat in a room in Brussels in a hotel room, drew a red line around Iraq and said, “There'll be no oil coming out of that nation.” They have to suppress oil coming out of Iraq. Otherwise, the price of oil will collapse, and OPEC and Saudi Arabia will collapse.
And so, what I found, what I discovered that they’re very unhappy about is a 323-page plan, which was written by big oil, which is the secret but official plan of the United States for Iraq's oil, written by the big oil companies out of the James Baker Institute in coordination with a secret committee of the Council on Foreign Relations. I know it sounds very conspiratorial, but this is exactly how they do it. It's quite wild. And it's all about a plan to control Iraq's oil and make sure that Iraq has a system, which, quote, “enhances its relationship with OPEC.” In other words, the whole idea is to maintain the power of OPEC, which means maintain the power of Saudi Arabia.
And this is one of the reasons they absolutely hate Hugo Chavez. (...)
Bush does not -- you have to remember, he doesn't like cheap oil. When we talk about paying $3-a-gallon gasoline, Bush’s benefactors, donors and his own family collects the $3 a gallon.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean?
GREG PALAST: Well, we're paying three bucks a gallon. ExxonMobil is collecting $3 a gallon. There's a chapter called “Trillion-Dollar Babies.” When Bush came in, we had oil as low as $18 a barrel. It was like water. Bush has successfully built up the price of oil from 18 bucks a barrel to over $70 a barrel. That's the “mission accomplished.” He didn't make a mistake here. That's the “mission accomplished.”
ExxonMobil, which after Enron is the biggest lifetime donor to the Bush campaigns, its value of its reserves, of its oil reserves, because of the Bush wars and Bush actions, has gone up by almost exactly $1 trillion in value. Just one company. A trillion-dollar windfall to a single company. That's the Bush benefactors.
If you thought you would never understand economics or the actual dynamics of the world dollar economy, this is one place where a little effort will suffice to help change your mind.
La Bourse de New York (NYSE) et la Bourse paneuropéenne Euronext, qui regroupe les places de Paris, Bruxelles, Amsterdam et Lisbonne, ont annoncé cette nuit à New York qu'elles s'étaient entendues sur les termes de leur fusion
.
D'une capitalisation comprise entre 15 et 20 milliards de dollars, NYSE Euronext sera la place boursière la plus liquide au monde, avec des échanges quotidiens compris entre 80 et 100 milliards de dollars et dont la capitalisation boursière des entreprises atteint 27.000 milliards de dollars, soit 21.000 milliards d'euros
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
From Utne.com:
Beyond Bills: Using Complementary Currencies to Diversify Risk and Create Sustainable Economies By Kirsten Liegmann, GreenBiz.com Imagine a future in which money printed down the street could be used to buy local goods and services, without the US Secret Service banging down your door for using counterfeit cash. According to Kirsten Liegmann, that vision is right on track. By using "complementary" currencies, cities and towns could protect their local economies by encouraging earning and spending within, as well as providing an alternative to a country's currency, should the national or global economy crash. This future is already a reality in Ithaca, New York, where Ithaca HOURS are successfully used at cash registers. (Thanks, Origo.) -- Suzanne Lindgren http://www.greenbiz.com/news/columns_third.cfm?NewsID=31718
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Addicted to Oil: America's Dangerous Habit
President Bush's declaration that the United States is "addicted to oil" stands in sharp contrast to his lack of leadership in the drive for true energy independence. Americans' car-centered lifestyle is still utterly dependent on often hostile foreign regimes. What's more, the administration's continued alienation of the Arab world may be threatening our access to Middle East oil. Pointing to this Chicago Tribune series that traces the oil that goes into our tanks back to its origins, Mother Jones Editor Monika Bauerlein recently noted on the MoJo blog that "kicking the oil habit is no longer just a matter of virtue, or environmental responsibility, or even finite resources." Rather, it is about "getting out of the way of the inevitable collapse" of the fragile energy network America has come to rely on so much. Read: Bush Advisor: Oil Future "Looking So Ugly Nobody Wants to Face It"
Oil is a finite resource, and experts say we're about to run out of it. The technology to replace it, however, is lagging far behind, and U.S. energy policies remain focused on finding new oil supplies while doing nothing to curb demand. Paul Roberts examines our readiness to make the move away from oil to "something cleaner, more sustainable, and far less vulnerable to political upheaval." Read: Over a Barrel
Interested in learning more? In a MotherJones.com interview, Paul Roberts discusses gas prices, Iraq's oil, the Bush administration's energy policies, the potential of alternative fuels, and many other topics. Read: The End of Oil
Last week the Senate passed a bill that opens up 8.3 million acres of Gulf of Mexico coastline to oil and natural gas drilling. Yet again, Congress emphasized increased supply while failing to restrain oil demand. MotherJones.com Editor Julian Brookes comments. Read: Senate Okays Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. Or, "Back to Drill, Drill, Drill..."
Shortly after President Bush's State of the Union statement that "America is addicted to oil," Michael Klare looked into just how addicted to this scarce resource we are and considered the potential consequences of a serious energy crisis and our ability to avert economic catastrophe. Read: Just How Addicted to Oil Are We?
The Chicago Tribune series is worth a read, so here's a link to it again. Paul Salopek takes the reader across the globe to the sources of our gasoline -- the oil wells in Africa, South America, and the Middle East. In the process, he unveils just how insecure and unsustainable our current oil-based system is.
The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) has a detailed analysis of the failings and consequences of American oil policy as well as recommendations for energy policies that will curb oil use and keep the United States and its economy out of harm's way.
Want to stay up to date with the latest news? Check out the Energy Bulletin for the most recent headlines on oil, energy, and sustainability from all over the Internet.
Americans for Energy Independence has a comprehensive collection of useful resources, ranging from articles on hybrid vehicles to links to organizations working to promote energy independence and security.
The Apollo Alliance has been working to create solutions for America's dependence on foreign energy sources on the state level. Its efforts have been endorsed by numerous labor unions and environmental organizations, among them Greenpeace, NRDC, and the Sierra Club. You can find tools for contacting your governor regarding the Apollo Alliance's state-based proposals here.
According to NRDC, transportation accounts for two-thirds of U.S. oil use, yet the average gas mileage of American vehicles has dropped to its lowest level since the 1980s. The Vehicle and Fuel Choices for American Security Act, a bill currently circulating through Congress, would help remedy that. Find out more and contact your representatives.
Interested in learning more about what personal lifestyle choices you can make to reduce your own oil consumption? This website, run by the U.S. Department of Energy and the Environmental Protection Agency, is a good place to start. You can find plentiful information on hybrid cars, alternative fuels, and energy efficiency. Check out the tools for comparing gas mileage, greenhouse gas emissions, air pollution ratings, and safety information for new and used vehicles.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Each year the Center for Global Development and FOREIGN POLICY look past the rhetoric to measure how rich-country governments are helping or hurting poor countries. How much aid are they giving? How high are their trade barriers against imports such as cotton from Mali or sugar from Brazil? Are they working to slow global warming? Are they making the world’s sea lanes safe for global trade? To find out, the index ranks 21 nations by assessing their policies and practices across seven areas of government action: foreign aid, trade, investment, migration, environment, security, and technology. [continues after chart and table]
Aug 31st 2006 | SARAJEVO From The Economist print edition
When commerce beckons, political and linguistic barriers come tumbling down
ANYONE interested in doing business in the region that used to be called Yugoslavia might be tempted not to bother—on the ground that its successor states were all very small, obsessed with minor linguistic and cultural differences, and generally not worth the effort.
A few years ago this might have been true, but now things have changed. Have a browse in a branch of Buybook, a Bosnian bookseller. In one section are shelves of “foreign” titles (by British or French writers, for example), and in another books by “local” authors. But “local” in this case does not mean only Bosnian. It means anyone writing in the language once called Serbo-Croatian—which is spoken, with only small variations, in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro.
In business and economics, as well as linguistics and culture, the old Yugoslav space is re-emerging. Damir Uzunovic, the director of Buybook, complains that it is still hard to sell Bosnian books in Serbia; but otherwise the book trade between all the countries which speak nas jezik—our language, as it is sometimes called in a desperate effort to sound neutral—has been flourishing.
After all, together the populations of Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia and Bosnia make up a market of some 16m people. Macedonians and Slovenes, also ex-Yugoslavs, speak different but closely related tongues; if you add them, the number swells to 20m. It grows to 22m if you throw in the Kosovo Albanians—most of whom understand the common Slavic language even if they abhor it. In any case, the simple fact that all members of the quarrelsome ex-Yugoslav family can understand one another (linguistically at least) makes it easy to market products of every kind. [...]
Even though Serbia is a long way from joining the European Union, its interpreters had been licking their lips at the thought of thousands of pages of EU rules and regulations needing translation. Imagine their disappointment when the Croats, keen to smooth Serbia's European path, simply sent their Serbian colleagues all the translations they had already made. This left just a little tidying up (and a change of script from Latin to Cyrillic) to be done in order to convert the documents from the Croatian language to the slightly different Serbian.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Other Economies are Possible! By Ethan Miller, Dollars & Sense Many people dissatisfied with the current economic system already have created alternatives like worker cooperatives, community currency initiatives, community gardens, and housing collectives. Now these myriad groups are linking together as a network called the Data Commons Project. The idea is to collectively bolster a "solidarity economy" -- a bottom-up alternative to both pan-capitalism and state socialism that puts social gain on par with material profit. (Thanks, AlterNet.) -- Suzanne Lindgren http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0706emiller.html (Utne.com)
Dr. Stiglitz’s new book, “Making Globalization Work” (Norton, $26.95), is billed as a sequel to his “Globalization and Its Discontents” (2002). ...
Two notions still animate the author. The first is that neoliberal economics — derided as “market fundamentalism” or the “Washington consensus” — vandalized the developing world. This supposed reign of neoliberal economic terror (privatization, open capital markets) has become a bogeyman of political liberalism (social justice, environmentalism), in whose ranks Dr. Stiglitz enjoys cult status globally. The second is that smart people in Washington and New York with the correct ideas can help set the world right. This supposition — even when cast in terms of promoting democracy rather than proffering special expertise — is an occupational hazard, and it enthralls many conservatives, too.
Dr. Stiglitz’s vision for more equitable globalization — with caveats about the toughness of the task — entails freer trade (no more loopholes for rich countries or corporate lobbies), curtailed intellectual property rights (“monopolies”) and green accounting (factoring resource depletion and ecological damage into G.D.P.). It also means more transparency in international finance (to curb corruption), debt forgiveness (foolhardy creditors must take responsibility, too) and democracy (less secretive procedures opened to nongovernmental organizations and others). ...
In his most intriguing chapter, Dr. Stiglitz explains how the United States benefits from other countries holding vast quantities of dollars, while those countries incur substantial costs, from depressed growth to instability — the very condition that such foreign reserves are meant to forestall. He observes that in Asia — which drives globalization more than Washington does — an alternative reserve system may be emerging. Dr. Stiglitz imparts his spin to this issuing of money substitutes, calling them “global greenbacks,” which could be used to finance global public goods like health vaccines. “This single initiative,” he suddenly concludes deep into the book, “could do more to make globalization work than any other.”
And instead of waiting for the United States to act in the interests of global humanity, he says, a coalition of Asian countries could move to this new reserve system even if America objected. Here is the new global economy already upon us.
A
new report from the central bank, the Reserve Bank, tackles some of the
regulatory issues involved in expanding credit “at the bottom of the
pyramid.” It argues not just that microcredit helps the poor, but that
it allows banks to “increase their business, enhance their profit and
spread the risk.”
Microcredit
is already a flourishing business, reaching 8m-10m households, Sa-Dhan
believes, mainly through “Self-Help Groups” (SHGs). These, supported by
banks, notably the government's National Bank for Agriculture and Rural
Development (NABARD), typically bring together about 15 women, who pool
savings for a few months, allocate them to members who need small
amounts temporarily, and are then eligible for a bank loan. ...
Despite
its recent growth, however, microcredit is far less widespread in India
than in neighbouring Bangladesh. A World Bank report published last
December reckoned that it amounted to no more than “a drop in the
ocean”, touching fewer than 5% of India's poor. In Bangladesh, by
contrast, it is estimated to reach some two-thirds of potential
borrowers.
One
reason India has lagged, oddly, is the determination of its
post-independence rulers to free poor farmers from the clutches of
local moneylenders.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on November 17, 2005 5:16 PM
[snip] The downsides
Not
everyone has been pleased with the prospect of better financial
services for the poor. Islamic fundamentalists have bombed branches of
Grameen in Bangladesh and attacked loan officers of other institutions
in India. Maoists have looted microfinance offices in Nepal. The head
of a microfinance effort in Afghanistan was murdered, possibly by drug
traders.
To drug lords in Afghanistan, the availability of
credit is unwelcome because it gives a choice to farmers who were
previously forced to grow poppies for want of other ways to finance
their crops. For the elites in closed markets running inefficient
monopolies, credit raises the prospect of future challenges from
entrepreneurs. For radical Muslims, it means that women (who in many
countries make up the bulk of microfinance borrowers) are able to run
viable businesses and become independent. And for everyone in poor
countries, credit can mean social upheaval as merit and enterprise
replace inheritance, family ties and position.
Nor does
microlending always have a happy outcome. The clients of K-Rep, an
excellent Kenyan microfinance bank in a small town on the fringes of
Nairobi, are a pretty resourceful lot, but when the government stopped
repairing roads, picking up rubbish and spraying for malaria, some were
at their wits' end. http://www.economist.com/printedition/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5079324
Professor
Dr. Muhammad Yunus is a Bangladeshi banker and economist. He is the
developer and founder of the concept of microcredit, the extension of small loans
to entrepreneurs too poor to qualify for traditional bank loans. Yunus is also the founder of Grameen Bank. In 2006, Yunus and the bank were jointly awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, for their efforts to create economic and social development from below.
Now,
it is interesting that as I tried to access Wikipedia for today's
Nobel Peace Prize, I got redirected a couple of time to the following
message instead:
[snip] Withholding the prize for a year, or possibly five, might seem rather callous. But the institute would not be suggesting that the world has become sufficiently peaceful now. Some do argue that wars are generally in decline. Last year a think-tank in Canada released a “Human Security Report” which noted that 100-odd wars have expired since 1988. Their study found that wars and genocides have become less frequent since 1991, that the value of the international arms trade has slumped by a third (between 1990 and 2003), and that refugee numbers have roughly halved (between 1992 and 2003). Yet, despite all that, there are clearly enough problems today—Darfur, Sri Lanka, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, international terrorism—to keep the hardest-working peace promoters busy. ...
In searching out individuals to praise for a variety of good deeds, to make celebrities of the well-meaning in various walks of life, is to confuse the purpose of the prize: to promote peace. The organisers could recall that on 19 occasions since the prize was first given out in 1901, the institute declared that it could find no fitting winner. During much of the first and second world wars, for example, no winner was named. ...
The Grameen Bank, in Bangladesh, which makes small loans to some of the poorest people on earth, has become a model for economic developers all over the world. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199512/grameen-bank
As economic journalist Gina Neff notes, "after 8 years of borrowing, 55% of Grameen households still aren't able to meet their basic nutritional needs--so many women are using their loans to buy food rather than invest in business."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
PLAYING WITH FIRE
America and the Dollar Illusion
By Gabor Steingart
The dollar is still the world's reserve currency, even though it hasn't deserved this status for a long time. The devaluation of the dollar can't be stopped -- it can only be deferred. The result could be a world economic crisis.
Editor's Note: The following essay has been excerpted from the German best-seller "World War for Wealth: The Global Grab for Power and Prosperity" by SPIEGEL editor Gabor Steingart. SPIEGEL ONLINE is publishing a series of excerpts from the book.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The technical limits of micro-credit
Saluting Yunu's invention as 'real progress', the editorialist Philippe Frémeaux notes that "micro-credit is not however a miraculous solution for all problems of development. Development cannot only follow 'bottom-up' logic. He also presumes that a developing state invests massively in education and infrastructures, guaranteeing the stability of the judicial system and limiting corruption. How, then, to justify the general enthusiasm for micro-credit ? The answer is simple. Explaining that Third World masses are going to be pulled out of poverty by allowing them to finance an activity satisfies both the NGOs and the liberal technocrats who populate the World Bank. Alternatives économiques (France) further articles on the themehttp://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=08/11/2006&cat=ECONOMY&pi=1#1
In a paper he prepared for a recent Federal Reserve Bank of Boston conference, Richard Freeman, a Harvard labour economist, estimates that the entry of China, India and the former Soviet bloc roughly doubled the number of workers in the market economy, from 1.46 billion to 2.93 billion. Since those countries brought little capital with them, the number of workers in the system shot up while the amount of capital increased very little. As the law of supply and demand might suggest, when labour is abundant and capital scarce, the returns to labour tend to fall and those to capital rise. ...
At the same time, wages in one sector respond to those in another. If globalisation depresses wages in tradable sectors but leaves them unaffected in, say, retailing, then more people will seek jobs in retailing, depressing wages in that sector too. ...
While wages in the advanced countries are stagnant, wages in the developing world are rising rapidly, albeit from a small base. Freeman estimates that if Chinese wages double every decade, as they did in the 1990s, they will reach the levels found in the advanced countries today in about 30 years. Absorbing the labour forces of other countries could take a little longer but the transition could be complete in 40 to 50 years - at which point, presumably, western wages will start rising again and the balance between capital and labour will be restored. ...
Still: imagine, at the birth of globalisation, western politicians had made an amazing proposition to voters. "Together," they could have said, "we are going to end world poverty. In order to achieve this, we are going to ask you to accept a pay freeze in real terms for as long as it takes for the wages of workers in the developing countries to catch up, which we estimate will be about half a century. Until the adjustment is complete, the reduction in labour costs will produce the side-effect of extraordinarily high profits for companies, enriching many of those who are already among the richest in society.
"So there will be winners and losers. The bad news is that you, the ordinary, middle-class employees of the west, will be losers and everybody else will be winners. But the good news is, your sacrifice will make poverty history."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
Economics
On the death of Ronald Reagan, whom he advised, Mr. Friedman wrote on these [WSJ] pages that “few people in human history have contributed more to the achievement of human freedom.” The same can and long will be said of Milton Friedman. http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009260
On another money-related note, from Science 17 November 2006 (Vol. 314. no. 5802, pp. 1154 - 1156):
The Psychological Consequences of Money
Money can be exchanged for material goods that are essential for our physiological and psychological well-being, but are there direct effects of money on our psychological state and behavior? Vohs et al. (p. 1154; see the Perspective by Burgoyne and Lea) primed human subjects to think about having money and found that these subjects acted in a more self-sufficient fashion than those who were not primed. Possessing money made it less likely that subjects would ask for help in solving a problem, or offer help to another person, or make donations. In addition, subjects with money would distance themselves--literally and figuratively--from others. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/5802/1154?etoc
[excerpt] "When professors Mark Aguiar and Erik Hurst combined the results of several large surveys (including studies where randomly chosen subjects kept detailed time diaries), they found that by any definition, the trends are clear.
In 1965, the average man spent 42 hours a week working at the office or the factory; throw in coffee breaks, lunch breaks, and commuting time, and you're up to 51 hours. Today, instead of spending 42 and 51 hours, he spends 36 and 40. What's he doing with all that extra time? He spends a little on shopping, a little on housework, and a lot on watching TV, reading the newspaper, going to parties, relaxing, going to bars, playing golf, surfing the Web, visiting friends, and having sex. Overall, depending on exactly what you count, he's got an extra six to eight hours a week of leisure—call it the equivalent of nine extra weeks of vacation per year.
For women, time spent on the job is up from 17 hours a week to 24. With breaks and commuting thrown in, it's up from 20 hours to 26. But time spent on household chores is down from 35 hours a week to 22, for a net leisure gain of four to six hours. Call it five extra vacation weeks."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Which means, according to new research emerging from many quarters, that our continued devotion to growth above all is, on balance, making our lives worse, both collectively and individually. Growth no longer makes most people wealthier, but instead generates inequality and insecurity. Growth is bumping up against physical limits so profound—like climate change and peak oil—that trying to keep expanding the economy may be not just impossible but also dangerous. And perhaps most surprisingly, growth no longer makes us happier. http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/03/reversal_of_fortune.html
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on April 12, 2007 3:47 PM Once considered the bastion of American capitalism, free trade is freefalling out of favor among the public and politicians alike . . .
The push had come from the American MNCs and capitalists all along and not really the public (just need to be convinced by their politicians). Not only the US firms get to manufacture overseas at lower cost but their service providers (banks, transport, insurance, communications, legal firms, education, consultancy, government procurement, technical services, etc) get to penetrate the foreign markets and grow in size, many of which may also not be cost effective for them to do out of the US in the first place.
Once the Americans get tired of expanding FTAs, the size and economies-of-scale of their manufacturers and service providers would not grow as fast but you can probably then expect China to pick up the slack and push for FTAs all over the place.
In the end, the different ways used to achieve the same goal had no effect on the outcome. Both countries failed to reduce urban pollution in line with targets. However, the stricter legislation in the USA compelled the automotive industry to come up with an alternative solution which it did in the form of hybrid cars. This is typical, the authors observed, because in the US, technological solutions are preferred over behavioral change. In France, technological solutions are strongly related to national prestige as a form of cultural elitism. France failed to make this a ‘grand project’ and the lack of public awareness may have failed to drive it forward.
This comparison shows that individual cultures still have ‘standard operating procedures’ which reflect ‘deep-rooted national political and social cultures’ despite increasing globalization. It also suggests that governments should take into account the cultural dimension when promoting policy change.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on May 16, 2007 4:04 PM However, the stricter legislation in the USA compelled the automotive industry to come up with an alternative solution which it did in the form of hybrid cars.
GM led the way initially but now trailing far behind Toyota and Honda. Toyota Prius has an annual production in the hundreds of thousands and a waiting queue even with the Prius factories spanning Japan, US, China(still minor), etc.
Originally written by Science Daily
In the Californian example, mandates were instituted that required zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) to make up a certain percentage of car production and sales, with fines imposed for not reaching targets. Both the oil and auto industries opposed this and lobbied heavily against it.
Arnold Schwarzenegger living up to his screen image?
He also switched his fuel-guzzling hulks of eight Hummers for the likes of a fuel-sipping Toyota Prius! Free advertising mileage from Arnold?
During Operation Desert Storm in 1991, the average American soldier consumed only four gallons of oil per day; as a result of George W. Bush's initiatives, a U.S. soldier in Iraq is now using four times as much. If this rate of increase continues unabated, the next major war could entail an expenditure of 64 gallons per soldier per day. ...
And foreign wars, sad to say, account for but a small fraction of the Pentagon's total petroleum consumption. Possessing the world's largest fleet of modern aircraft, helicopters, ships, tanks, armored vehicles, and support systems -- virtually all powered by oil -- the Department of Defense (DoD) is, in fact, the world's leading consumer of petroleum. It can be difficult to obtain precise details on the DoD's daily oil hit, but an April 2007 report by a defense contractor, LMI Government Consulting, suggests that the Pentagon might consume as much as 340,000 barrels (14 million gallons) every day. This is greater than the total national consumption of Sweden or Switzerland.
* * *
Within a decade, the US will be heavily dependent on African oil. Little wonder the Pentagon is preparing a strategy for the region: http://www.newstatesman.com/200706180024
Economists question dominance of free-market ideas
[snip] ....Those who doubt the naturally beneficial workings of the market are considered either deluded or crazy.
But in recent months, economists have engaged in an impassioned debate over the way their specialty is taught in universities around the United States, and practiced in Washington. They are questioning the profession's most cherished ideas about not interfering in the economy. ...
And free trade is not the only sacred subject, Blinder and other like-minded economists say. Most efforts to intervene in the markets - like setting a minimum wage, instituting industrial policy or regulating prices - are viewed askance by mainstream economists, as are analyses that do not rely on mathematical modeling. ...
In addition to Blinder, other eminent economists like Lawrence Summers and the Nobel Prize winner George Akerlof have pointed out what they see as the failings of laissez-faire economics. ...
Other economists, however, go much further, and try to chip away at the field's underlying theoretical foundations. So while Blinder, Card and Rodrik might be considered mere heretics, this second group has earned the label "heterodox."
Although the meaning of the term is slippery, Frederic Lee, an economist at the University of Missouri-Kansas City who edits the Heterodox Economics Newsletter, says it refers to those who reject the neoclassical model, which Milton Friedman helped create, and which Ronald Reagan championed when he took over the White House.
Reny and others point out that the increasing popularity in the mainstream of behavioral economics, which looks at people's complex psychological reactions to events, has offered a fuller picture of how consumers operate in the marketplace. Still, Lee criticizes neoclassical economics for maintaining that the market, if left alone, would ultimately find a happy balance. ...
In Lee's view, for example, oil companies - not the natural workings of the market - determine gas prices.
According to his estimates, 5 to 10 percent of America's 15,000 economists are heterodox, which includes an array of professors on the right and the left (post-Keynesians, Marxists, feminists and social economists).
Heterodox economists complain that they are almost completely shut out by their more influential neoclassical colleagues who dominate most American university departments and prestigious peer-reviewed journals that are essential to gaining tenure.
There are a few university departments where these iconoclasts are welcome, like Amherst in Massachusetts, the New School in New York and Lee's home base, the University of Missouri-Kansas City, but these are exceptions.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Michael Klare's latest piece offers perhaps the crucial context within which to consider Cheney's urge to launch an air assault on Iran. ...
Such an attack would, of course, be a straightforward act of global economic madness; but, given the cast of characters – a classic neocon quip of the pre-Iraq invasion period was ""Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran..." -- that hardly takes the possibility off the hypothetical "table" where all "options" so obdurately remain. An assault on Iran aside, Klare, author of the indispensable Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America's Growing Dependence on Imported Petroleum, suggests the nature of the hair-raising energy world we are now entering. Tom
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The certitude that central institutions will always be ready to cough-up crazy sums of money in order to bring business back to normal is an incentive to crime. There will be a price to pay for this lesson: so far, almost 200 billion euros for Europeans [the sum of liquidity injected by the European Central Bank last week]. Who hasn't got a little voice in their head pointing out how this money could have been used to alleviate some of the planet's misery? La Vie (France) http://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=16/08/2007&cat=ECONOMY&pi=0#0
Just how stupid or evil are New Labour's women ministers? That's the question raised by their support for making the purchase of sex illegal. Basic economics tells us that such a move would be bad for women who sell sex. A simple supply-demand diagram should make this clear. If the purchase of sex were legal, the demand curve would be D*, and the price of sex P*. Now, if the purchase becomes illegal, some men who bought sex at P* would think "yikes! I could get done for this. I'd better stop." Demand would then fall to D' and the price of sex would fall to P'. Prostitutes would then be worse off. It's the women who would suffer. Exactly how much they'd suffer would depend upon two things: 1. How far the demand curve shifted. The tougher the sentencing for buying sex, or the more rigorously the law is policed, the bigger would be the leftward move in the demand curve, and the bigger the fall in price. 2. How elastic the supply curve is. If lower prices cause lots of women to stop selling sex, the supply curve will be flat so prices won't fall much - because there'll be fewer women competing for what demand there is. But if supply is inelastic - say because women don't have alternative ways of making money - prices will fall a lot. What's worse, the main losers here will be the most vulnerable prostitutes - the ones on street corners rather than Chelsea horizontales. There are two reasons for this. One is that these will bear the brunt of the policing of the law; the Dibble will be arresting men kerb-crawling around King's Cross rather than those visiting flats in SW3. Also, these women don't have alternative jobs to go to if prices fall, whereas the posher prozzie can always take up PR work or acting, so their supply is more inelastic. So, criminalizing buying sex would hurt prostitutes, especially the poorest ones. Which raises the question. Why do New Labour women not see this? Are they stupid or misogynistic? Or is this yet another example of politics as signaling?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
How banks rip off college students and the government.
[snip] If you know anything at all about the federal student loan program, you will not have been surprised by the scandal of recent months. The only amazing thing is that it has taken so long to arrive. Here's how the program works: Banks and other private companies lend money to students. The federal government pays part or all of the interest—currently 7 percent or 8 percent. The government also guarantees the loans. ...
If the government can borrow money at 3 percent or 4 percent, why should it be paying 7 percent or 8 percent for the privilege of guaranteeing loans to someone else? Wouldn't it make more sense for the government to loan out the money itself?
That is the $4 billion question (the approximate annual cost of the interest subsidy). And the answer is: Of course that would make more sense. It is what any levelheaded businessperson would do. And what is stopping the government from behaving like a levelheaded businessperson? Not those head-in-the-clouds Democrats. It's Republicans, who adopted the student loan "industry" in its infancy, like a stray cat, and have nurtured it and protected it ever since. There actually is a parallel student loan program that does use government funds. It was started in the early days of the Clinton administration. It costs less to operate, and it has not been tainted by scandal. But when the Republicans regained control of Congress in 1994, they pushed through a law forbidding the Education Department to encourage the use of this program. As a result, direct federal loans account for only 25 percent of all student loans. ...
The answer: Allofthem. ... In fact, they’re all three American Jews.
[Leonid] Hurwicz was born in 1917 to a Jewish family from Poland, World War I refugees from the Congress Kingdom displaced to Moscow, a few months before the October Revolution. Shortly thereafter, the family returned to Warsaw. In 1938 he received his LL.M. degree from Warsaw University. In 1939 he studied at the London School of Economics, then went to Geneva and studied at the Graduate Institute of International Studies.[5] After World War II began, he was forced to move to Portugal, and finally in 1940 to the United States.[6] He continued his studies at Harvard University and the University of Chicago.[7] His parents and brother fled Warsaw, only to be arrested and sent to Soviet labor camps.
People talk about the brain drain of various nations’ top scientists and doctors coming to the U.S. because here’s where the action is. But let’s not forget the incredible addition of talent America has received due to the persecution of European Jewry for the last few centuries. The waves of Jewish immigrants from Europe brought America a lot more than the Hollywood studio system. It brought us top scientists, thinkers, doctors, technologists, and authors. ...
Mother tongues: English, Swahili Joined: October 25, 2005 Location: Kenya
RE: Economics
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 19, 2007 4:20 PM
People talk about the brain drain of various nations’ top scientists and doctors coming to the U.S. because here’s where the action is. But let’s not forget the incredible addition of talent America has received due to the persecution of European Jewry for the last few centuries. ... and authors. ...
I have always wondered (when I remember), whether the assassination of Alexander II and the subsequent persecutions by the third Alexander were in any way connected to the decline of the golden age of Russian literature, and the rise of NY publishing? Please enlighten me if you have a clue.
Puskin, Tolstoy, perhaps Gogol were nobles and it is probable that there were many others. So the golden age may also have ended with the October revolution and the end of independent and realistic thinking in that country for virtually the rest of that century.
So as not to irritate by being OT, I will continue with this matter in the appropriate forum sometime.
The best-known networking sites in the industry connect computer-savvy elites to one another. Babajob, by contrast, connects India’s elites to the poor at their doorsteps, people who need jobs but lack the connections to find them. Job seekers advertise skills, employers advertise jobs and matches are made through social networks.
For example, if Rajeev and Sanjay are friends, and Sanjay needs a chauffeur, he can view Rajeev’s page, travel to the page of Rajeev’s chauffeur and see which of the chauffeur’s friends are looking for similar work. ...
Mr. Krishna found that many poor Indians in dead-end jobs remain in poverty not because there are no better jobs, but because they lack the connections to find them. Any Bangalorean could confirm the observation: the city teems with laborers desperate for work, and yet wealthy software tycoons complain endlessly about a shortage of maids and cooks.
Mr. Blagsvedt’s epiphany? “We need village LinkedIn!” he recalled saying, alluding to the professional networking site. ...
In India, a businessman looking for a chauffeur might ask his friend, who might ask his chauffeur. Such connections provide a kind of quality control. The friend’s chauffeur, for instance, will not recommend a hoodlum, for fear of losing his own job.
To re-create this dynamic online, Babajob pays people to be “connectors” between employer and employee. In the example above, the businessman’s friend and his chauffeur would each earn the equivalent of $2.50 if they connected the businessman with someone he liked.
Adrianne Yamaki, a 32-year-old management consultant in New York, travels constantly and logs 80-hour workweeks. So to eke out more time for herself, she routinely farms out the administrative chores of her life — making travel arrangements, hair appointments and restaurant reservations and buying theater tickets — to a personal assistant service, in India.
Kenneth Tham, a high school sophomore in Arcadia, Calif., strives to improve his grades and scores on standardized tests. Most afternoons, he is tutored remotely by an instructor speaking to him on a voice-over-Internet headset while he sits at his personal computer going over lessons on the screen. The tutor is in India. ...
TutorVista has 600 tutors in India and 10,000 subscribers in the United States....
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Recession? What Recession?
By BOB HERBERT
[excerpt] Mr. Bernanke executed a flawless version of the Washington waffle. He said: “Our forecast is for moderate, but positive, growth going forward.” He said: “Economists are extremely bad at predicting turning points, and we don’t pretend to be any better.” He said: “We have not calculated the probability of recession, and I wouldn’t want to offer that today.”
With all due respect to the chairman, he would see the recession that so many others are feeling if he would only open his eyes. While Mr. Bernanke and others are waiting for the official diagnosis (a decline in the gross domestic product for two successive quarters), the disease is spreading and has been spreading for some time.
The evidence is all around us. Representative Elijah Cummings of Maryland told Mr. Bernanke that many members of Congress are holding forums in their districts “to help people who are coming to our doors, literally with tears in their eyes, and trying to figure out how they’re going to manage a foreclosure that’s right around the corner.”
The housing meltdown is getting the attention, but there’s so much more. Bankruptcies and homelessness are on the rise. The job market has been weak for years. The auto industry is in trouble. The cost of food, gasoline and home heating oil are soaring at a time when millions of Americans are managing to make it from one month to another solely by the grace of their credit cards.
The country has been in denial for years about the economic reality facing American families. That grim reality has been masked by the flimflammery of official statistics (job growth good, inflation low) and the muscular magic of the American way of debt: mortgages on top of mortgages, pyramiding student loans and an opiatelike addiction to credit cards at rates that used to get people locked up for loan-sharking. …
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Taxpayer may lose £2bn in bank rescue
Northern Rock bidders want interest on Bank of England loan written off
Bidders are arguing for more lenient lending conditions to Northern Rock in return for safeguarding valuable jobs ....
The government has been trying to secure a buyer for Northern Rock since it had to be rescued by the Bank of England in September. Since then, Northern Rock has borrowed close to £20bn from the Bank at a penal rate of interest believed to be close to 7%.
Mervyn King, the Bank's governor, agreed to rescue the stricken mortgage lender, Britain's fifth largest before it crashed in September, on condition it pay the penal rate as the price of its rescue. But Northern Rock has not yet paid any interest and the bill will continue to rise until the bank is more financially stable.
Mr King believes the bank should pay a higher rate of interest to protect taxpayers from potential losses if it goes bust. He has spoken several times of the dangers he would create if reckless lending by banks was bailed out using taxpayers' money, only for them to repeat the same mistakes with even more disastrous results. ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/nov/14/northernrock.bankofenglandgovernor1
I agree with the bidders. Banks should be allowed to make money by lending other people's money and in the event of any problems, they should be allowed to write off any penalties, so that they can go back to the business of making money by lending other people's money as soon as possible and in a way as relaxed as possible. Sounds only fair to me.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
At the third OPEC summit in 47 years, held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said that the price of crude oil could reach $200 a barrel. “The basis of all aggression,” said Chavez, “is oil.” During a private meeting that was accidentally televised, the oil minister of Venezuela suggested to the oil minister of Iran that OPEC stop using the crippled dollar for pricing; the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia countered that public discussion of the weak dollar would cause U.S. currency to lose value. “Kill the cable!” shouted a security guard as he ran into the meeting room, “Kill the cable!” (Harper's Magazine)
Unfortunately his words and those of everyone at the meeting were being broadcast via a live television feed to a group of astonished reporters. 'I couldn't believe it,' said one who was there. 'When I realised they didn't know they were being broadcast live, I frantically started taking notes.' ...
The weakness of the dollar is one reason why oil prices are so high, as cartel members seek to compensate for their lower earnings. This means a further drop in the dollar is likely to be accompanied by a rise in oil prices. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2212899,00.html
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on November 14, 2007 9:38 AM
Northern Rock bidders want interest on Bank of England loan written off
I agree with the bidders. Banks should be allowed to make money by lending other people's money and in the event of any problems, they should be allowed to write off any penalties, so that they can go back to the business of making money by lending other people's money as soon as possible and in a way as relaxed as possible. Sounds only fair to me.
This guy disagrees:
In my field there are no great leaps -- it's one sentence at a time.
I sit in wonderment at the story of W. Lance Anderson, the president of NovaStar Financial in Kansas City, who while handing out subprime mortgages to any applicant wearing shoes and a shirt managed to sink the company's stock from $40 in June to $1.72. This is a man who earned $1.7 million in salary and bonuses last year, plus $711,386 in deferred compensation, plus more dough in various arrangements that dopes like me can't quite grasp. http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2007/11/21/subprime/index_np.html?source=newsletter
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Rising oil wealth is lifting Islamic banking - banking that adheres to the laws of the Koran and its prohibition against charging interest - into the financial mainstream.
In September, at the General Assembly of the United Nations, President Sarkozy proposed “un New Deal écologique et économique,” but without explaining how economic growth can be reconciled with conservation. If he is serious about saving the planet, and if he wants to reassure the unions that workers will still have time with their families, he should consider introducing tax incentives for hibernation. The long-term benefits of reduced energy consumption would counterbalance the economic loss. There has never been a better time to stay in bed.
Graham Robb is the author of “The Discovery of France: A Historical Geography From the Revolution to the First World War.”
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Why America's Currency Is the World's Problem
[snip] ... The dollar's share of worldwide currency reserves has shrunk from 80 percent in the 1970s to about 65 percent today. China, Russia and Malaysia have already partially uncoupled their currencies from the dollar, and Kuwait plans to follow suit in May 2008. ...
According to a high-ranking official in the Finance Ministry, exchange rates of $2 per euro are possible in the medium term, even if, as some conjecture, there is a short-term correction next year.
"From the US's perspective, there is little pressure to do anything about the weak dollar," says Michael Heise, chief economist with German insurance giant Allianz. "Pressure on the government and the Federal Reserve will only grow if there is a true crisis of confidence in the currency and the flow of capital begins to ebb as a result." But this is a risk Heise doesn't see materializing, not yet, at least.
Because the Americans are apparently unwilling to take any steps against the weak dollar, there is growing support for the Europeans to take a more proactive approach and boost the US currency by buying dollars and selling euros on the currency markets. "The ECB (European Central Bank) must make it clear that it will not accept a continued rise of the euro and could even intervene," says Gustav Adolf Horn of the Düsseldorf-based Macroeconomic Policy Institute, a group with ties to trade unions.
However, interventions in the foreign currency market are usually effective only if all central banks cooperate, as happened seven years ago. Securities dealers are only impressed when they notice that all major players have joined forces. Then they no longer have the confidence to bet on a declining dollar. Those who speculate against the combined power of the central banks have rarely walked away as winners.
But the central banks and their governments are a long way from the necessary unanimity. The Americans, most of all, would not play along.
Besides, there is disagreement over whether interventions would even be effective in the current situation. Joachim Poss, the deputy head of the Social Democrats parliamentary group in the German parliament, believes "an attempt to bolster the dollar could dissipate all too quickly."
The reason being that there are enough countries that are simply waiting for the right opportunity to shift at least some of their dollar reserves to euros. If the ECB intervened against the dollar, there would be great temptation in these countries to take advantage of higher dollar prices to buy euros.
"Additional dollars would enter the markets again, which would fully or partially eliminate the intended stabilization," says Poss. ...
Don’t let all the chatter about the “incredibly shrinking dollar” fool you. The Almighty Greenback is here to stay, and there are far more serious dangers lurking for the global economy.
....It is quite possible for the United States to retain global monetary preeminence while simultaneously experiencing real economic stagnation. America could lead the global economy into a period of economic doldrums, yet the dollar’s status would be unaffected because all are dragged down together. ...
In the meantime, people should relax: The dollar is down, but it’s not out.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
U.S. Soldiers and Shoppers Hit the Wall
By ROGER COHEN
Published: January 21, 2008
...The non-relation between expensive wars and exempt non-warriors, a mirage Bush has fostered, has become unsustainable.
Roach estimated U.S. net national savings at a tiny 1.4 percent of national income and household debt at 133 percent of personal disposable income. That last figure means middle class families are tapping into home equity - borrowing against their homes - to buy their kids socks. ...
The U.S. economy has come to a "virtual standstill." ... Though any reader of newspaper business pages has surely noticed that oil news, oil deals, and oil prices have been front and center, the role of oil in our new economic moment has been underemphasized of late. It's hard even to remember -- now that the price of a barrel of crude oil has hit the $100 mark and still hovers around $91 -- that, in the week after September 11, 2001, oil was still under $20 a barrel. Think of this as another modest accomplishment of the Bush administration, helped along by its rash war in Iraq, which actually took oil off the market. In a mere six years, we've gone from the era of cheap oil to the era of pricy petroleum or "tough oil", with a new spike at the gas pump expected as early as this spring. The results are now there for all to see -- in growing misery at home as well as stunning global financial and power shifts.
Michael Klare has long been ahead of the curve. In the late 1990s, he was already writing about "resource wars" in the coming century; as that century dawned, his next book, Blood and Oil, arrived; and now, just in time for a new global era, his latest book, Rising Powers, Shrinking Planet: The New Geopolitics of Energy, is ready to appear. You could say that he saw much of this coming and here he offers us an assessment of the missing role that energy played in the bursting of the American bubble.
In current debates about the world economy, “growth is good” often appears as a truism. Growth leads to wealth, it is said, and greater wealth is surely desirable, especially for the poorer developing countries. Closer inspection, however, leads to a far more nuanced assessment. ...
When growth is accompanied by rising inequality, this matters for the poor in two ways: It reduces or even negates gains in their absolute share that would otherwise result from economic growth. And it also diminishes their relative share. ...
The table shows that, even though the U.S. has the highest per capita GNI (PPP) in the table, its poor have only about half as much income as the poor of Norway and Japan and little more than the Hungarian poor. Taking relative share into account as well, the U.S. poor do much worse than the poor in the other countries. From their standpoint, less economic growth more evenly distributed would have been much better. ...
Some optimists may contend that China’s rich or its political leaders will be so imperturbably committed to the common good, including poverty avoidance, that the economic interests of the rich will not affect the design of China’s economic order. Such optimism is risky, even naive. ...
High-inequality countries like those of Latin America have been highly resistant to inequality-lowering reforms, because any government must cooperate with those whose economic power enables them severely to damage the country’s economy. By contrast, low-inequality countries like those of Scandinavia find it easy to keep inequality low. ...
Much of China’s export-driven success has come at the expense of other poor countries. It is therefore a grave mistake to conclude from China’s example that all poor countries could have done, or could still do, similarly well. ...
Thomas Pogge
works in the Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the Australian National University and (soon) in the Philosophy Department of Yale University.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Wow, where to begin ?
- U.S. vs Norway, Japan comparison: you are comparing very small countries that have immigration limits and very homogenous populations (not to mention oil revenue in Norway's case) with a very large country of 300 million people that has let in record numbers of poor immigrants from all over the world in the past 20 years.
- If the U.S. poor are at a comparative disadvantage to the poor in other countries, why is net immigration in the U.S.'s favor ? In other words, why do so many poor people risk their lives to get to the U.S. ? Why are there not long lines at foreign embassies in the U.S., of American poor emigrating to other countries ? And what is being "better off" even mean ? If you drive through a neighborhood in the U.S. that is considered "middle class", you see big houses which only the rich could afford in other countries. I have been in so-called ghettos in the U.S. (Compton, Los Angeles) where the "poor" have houses with a palm tree in the yard and a big-screen TV and car. Is that being worse off than the poor in other countries ? I spoke with a guy the other day whose grandfather lives in Belgium. The authorities told him he can either have his 401k (stock retirement plan), OR the state plan, but not both (in the U.S., that would not happen).
- Growth, in my view, tends to make people more equal, economically, not less equal (the reason that Switzerland, South Korea, etc. have such income equality is due to solid growth over the decades, not despite it).
I don't think you have economic equality and then get growth from that. I think it is the opposite: growth tends to in the long term create income equality. Economic growth is good, and I hardly think that you can make a good case to say that it is bad.
Please look up Pareto's law some time. He was an Italian economist and he stated that based on historical evidence, every country has income inequality, and that 20 % of the people will always have a disproporation share of the wealth (the famous 80/20 Law). That was even true in the USSR and in all socialist states. Every attempt historically to eliminate income inequality has failed miserably.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
John (and everyone),
Would you mind using the Quote function in your replies so that we know what exactly you are referring to? As it is, your last post says "Post #140950—in reply to #51970," but #51970 is just the opening post of this thread and it doesn't look like you are replying to it.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on March 12, 2008 5:49 PM I thought I was just replying to the post immediately above
Logical and works most of the time, except that frequently new posts get inserted before we complete our reply, so as a rule it's safer to quote what we are replying to, particularly with older threads, or when we don't immediately see previous posts because a new page starts, or without the page being refreshed the reader's browser just doesn't volunteer to show previous posts.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
P.S. As an alternative to using the Quote button, you may want to push the Reply one to the left of it, within the specific post you are replying to, which is what I have done now.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The End of the World as You Know It
…and the Rise of the New Energy World Order Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author of Resource Wars and Blood and Oil. Consider this essay a preview of his newest book, Rising Powers, Shrinking Planet: The New Geopolitics of Energy, which has just been published by Metropolitan Books. A brief video of Klare discussing key subjects in his new book can be viewed by clicking here.
The riots over the soaring prices of foodstuffs have grown across the world over the last weeks. Several governments have announced measures controlling the trade of these commodities. The European press seeks the causes of the lack of basic foods and proposes solutions to the crisis.
Le Monde (France) According to the daily, "new eating habits in developing countries, for the most part imported from developed countries, largely explain the explosion of demand, and thus the price tensions. But it's not the only reason. Competition from biofuels is another essential one. The United States, so generous with the World Food Program, confirmed its desire to double the acreage currently devoted to growing fuel crops. Faced with the American driver, the Haitian peasant can't compete. It's the case in Europe. Not only does Europe want to develop biofuels, but, during international negotiations, it maintains protectionist policies that have for so long destabilised third world agriculture and hampered the fight against poverty."
Der Tagesspiegel (Germany) Gerd Appenzeller sees the International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for Development presented by the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) as confirmation that the Western world is protecting its prosperity at the cost of less developed countries: "To put it simply, the accusation directed in particular at the US, Canada, Australia and Western Europe is that these states - the richest in the world - are treating the rest of the planet like colonies. ... By imposing their supposedly superior economic and agrarian system on the Third World - albeit with the best intentions - and exploiting their economic power, the industrialised nations are ruining these countries. There are plenty of straightforward examples. The European Union is subsidising the construction of increasingly large fishing fleets and purchasing all the fishing rights for Africa's coasts. As a result, Portuguese and Spanish trawlers are taking over the traditional fishing grounds of, for example, the Senegalese, so the latter, totally impoverished, are forced to sail the coasts of the Canary Islands on dilapidated fishing boats in the hope of finding a better future there."
Financial Times (United Kingdom) Columnist Victor Mallet argues in the financial daily that the worldwide food crisis is not due to a lack of supply - for the time being - but rather to interruptions in free trade. "The immediate cause of this crisis is not - perhaps surprisingly - a shortage of food. The problem is the sudden reluctance of traditional exporters to sell their surpluses. As with credit providers in the seized-up credit markets, each producer is hoarding its own supply in case of hard times at home, because it suspects trading partners will do the same. Trust in the efficiency and liquidity of the market has collapsed. Farm protectionism is not new. ... International farm trade has nevertheless managed to satisfactorily for decades redistribute surpluses of staple foods. The current seizures in the markets are therefore a cause for general alarm."
Dagbladet Information (Denmark) Two of the major EU states have proposed entirely different schemes for combating the global food crisis. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke out in favour of a new trade agreement and trade facilitations for the world's poorest countries, while the French Minister of Agriculture Michel Barnier calls for more protectionism and subsidies for EU farmers. The daily comments: "The solution is not a 'pure market economy' but the combination of what the European Commission calls 'liberalisation of production' with intelligent political measures aimed at protecting the environment, the climate and the many poor and hungry of this world. The EU must work hard for a plan like this. It requires a sensible and coordinated European response - and an end to the feuding between London and Paris."
The riots over the soaring prices of foodstuffs have grown across the world over the last weeks. Several governments have announced measures controlling the trade of these commodities. The European press seeks the causes of the lack of basic foods and proposes solutions to the crisis.
Meanwhile:
"Hunger bashed in the front gate of Haiti’s presidential palace. Hunger poured onto the streets, burning tires and taking on soldiers and the police. Hunger sent the country’s prime minister packing. Haiti’s hunger, that burn in the belly that so many here feel, has become fiercer than ever in recent days as global food prices spiral out of reach, spiking as much as 45 percent since the end of 2006 and turning Haitian staples like beans, corn and rice into closely guarded treasures. … That anger is palpable across the globe. The food crisis is not only being felt among the poor but is also eroding the gains of the working and middle classes, sowing volatile levels of discontent and putting new pressures on fragile governments.
“It’s the worst crisis of its kind in more than 30 years,” said Jeffrey D. Sachs, the economist and special adviser to the United Nations secretary general, Ban Ki-moon. “It’s a big deal and it’s obviously threatening a lot of governments. There are a number of governments on the ropes, and I think there’s more political fallout to come.”
The developing nations, and in particular China and India, are being blamed for global problems, including the rising cost of commodities and the increase in greenhouse gas emissions, because they are consuming more goods and fuel than ever before. But Indians from the prime minister’s office on down frequently point out that per capita, India uses far lower quantities of commodities and pollutes far less than nations in the West, particularly the United States.
There may be some foundation to Indians’ accusations of hypocrisy by the West. The United States uses — or throws away — 3,770 calories a person each day, ..., compared with 2,440 calories per person in India.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
I, unfortunately, agree. We (United States) are a wasteful society as a whole. Although I don’t like what is happening with our economy (loss of houses, jobs, rising prices, etc.), it may take an economic bottoming out to get things back in line. Basically, imho, we became spoiled and too often do not appreciate the little things in life.
It is a tale of two peoples. In one version of the story, a country with a lot of poor people suddenly experiences fast economic expansion, but only half of the people share in the new prosperity. The favored ones spend a lot of their new income on food, and unless supply expands very quickly, prices shoot up. The rest of the poor now face higher food prices but no greater income, and begin to starve. Tragedies like this happen repeatedly in the world. ...
Much discussion is rightly devoted to the division between haves and have-nots in the global economy, but the world’s poor are themselves divided between those who are experiencing high growth and those who are not. The rapid economic expansion in countries like China, India and Vietnam tends to sharply increase the demand for food. This is, of course, an excellent thing in itself, and if these countries could manage to reduce their unequal internal sharing of growth, even those left behind there would eat much better.
But the same growth also puts pressure on global food markets — sometimes through increased imports, but also through restrictions or bans on exports to moderate the rise in food prices at home, as has happened recently in countries like India, China, Vietnam and Argentina. Those hit particularly hard have been the poor, especially in Africa. ...
Amartya Sen, who teaches economics and philosophy at Harvard, received the Nobel Prize in economics in 1998 and is the author, most recently, of “Identity and Violence: The Illusion of Destiny.”
Wall Street and its business-page boosters shout optimism from the rooftops, as if to convince themselves, and the rest of us, that it’s time to get out there and rally. ...
But if the economy is going to depend on the populace feeling good, it needs to give us something better than cars and TVs to feel good about. I’d start with sustainability, which would also reduce a lot of anxiety.
Meanwhile, by miring dreams of building and buying in melted-down credit and $125-a-barrel oil, the recession forces us to take time out, and gives us time to experience some different kinds of happiness, and new reasons for optimism.
It’s already working for me. Each proposed monster ski resort or McMansion village that bites the dust makes me feel a little bit better.
[snip] "Wanna know something?" he asked. "There's gonna be a new gold rush. It's called swaps and derivatives."
"What are swaps and derivatives?" I asked. "Never heard of 'em."
"You will, Johnny," Vince said. "You will."
We leaned against a log fallen from a roofless cabin. "It's a market that's gonna be in the trillions of dollars," he said. "And it's gonna be a very esoteric market. Too hard for lawmakers and regulators to understand. So lawmakers and regulators won't even try.
"It's gonna be an unregulated and unrestricted market. We traders are gonna have this gold rush all to ourselves. Swaps and derivatives are also gonna be hard for auditors to value. So auditors won't bother us either."
I blinked stupidly.
"Swaps and derivatives are gonna be hard even for the senior executives at the companies we work for to understand. So our bosses won't bother us. How cool is that?"
He smiled. "And guess what? Swaps and derivatives are gonna be virtually hidden from the American public. No class-action investor lawsuits. No pension funds blowing up. No stories on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. No election year calls for reform. Swaps and derivatives won't ever be a campaign issue, because no one will have ever heard of them. At least not for a while. I'll give us 10 years."
Vince poked my ribs. "We're gonna make a ton of money originating and underwriting this shit, and then another ton of money trading this shit. We're gonna be able to gamble with borrowed money and take really crazy risks. How beautiful is that, huh?"
I nodded.
"But the really beautiful thing is that, if we get into trouble, the American taxpayer is probably going to have to bail us out."
He paused."That isn't true for stocks and bonds, of course." He winked. "Stocks and bonds are fuckin' old school."
T he late CNBC commentator Seth Tobias once told me, "Hedge funds do not lie. They have no secrets. Investment performance over time tells the whole tale."
Two words resonate: lies; secrets. Which brings us to swaps and derivatives.
As the name would imply, derivatives are "derived from" something else. In calculus, derivatives are measurements of how a function changes when the values of its inputs change. Loosely speaking, that's a pretty good definition for what happens on Wall Street, too.
When traders trade derivatives, they aren't trading on the prices of stocks, bonds, treasuries, commodities or foreign currencies—the usual stuff. They're trading on things related to, or derived from, "the usual stuff." ...
On Wall Street, you can bet on anything that goes into the pricing structure of anything else that is formally traded as a registered security.
Currently, some derivatives are exchange-traded, but most are not. Most trade in secret, in markets called dealer markets, and there are many more flavors of derivatives than Baskin-Robbins ever had ice cream flavors.
I'll pick just one letter of the alphabet. How about C? Here are just a few flavors of derivatives beginning with the letter C: calendar spreads, capital guarantees, cash-flow matches, collateralized debt obligation, commodity ticks, constant maturity swaps, constant proportion portfolio insurance, contango, contracts for difference, correlation trades, credit default swaps, credit default swap indexes, credit derivatives, credit spreads on bonds, credit spreads on options, credit spread warrants, currency futures and currency swaps.
That's just one letter of the alphabet. The total value of derivatives in the derivative markets beginning just with the letter C is in the many trillions of dollars.
S waps are a type of derivative. In a swap, two parties agree to exchange one stream of cash flow for another stream of cash flow generated by underlying assets. Those cash flow streams are called "legs."
These cash flows are calculated as coming from what's called a "notional principal amount." The notional principal amount is usually backed by a real asset, like a bond. (But lately, a lot of junk wants to be called bonds.) Other words for popular bond-type investments in today's Wall Street parlance are CMOs (collateralized mortgage obligations), CDOs (collateralized debt obligations) and SIVs (structured investment vehicles).
But it's not always a bond or bond wannabe that backs a swap. It could be a basket of foreign currencies. It could be a basket of commodities. Assets indexed to the price of oil are very popular right now, as oil is extremely volatile and hitting new highs almost every day.
The important thing about some of the underlying swap assets is that they can be exotic or opaque. These particularly weird assets are usually thinly traded or hard to value, and sometimes they are nearly worthless, although this is often not immediately obvious. Regardless, the underlying asset backing a swap must throw off streams of cash or cash equivalents, at least in the beginning—that's why they're called legs. But legs slow down. Sometimes they stop. Ideally, legs work together, like the legs of a centipede. But sometimes, the centipede goes spastic.
As the assets behind swaps are usually not exchanged between the parties, swaps can create an unfunded exposure with respect to the underlying asset or principal amount. Parties can earn profits or losses from the price movements of the assets without ever actually having to own or control them or post a penny in collateral for the notional value of the asset.
When used properly, swaps can be used to hedge against certain risks, like big fluctuations in interest rates. They can also be a sort of insurance against companies going bankrupt and their bonds going into default.
When used improperly, swaps can be used to irresponsibly speculate without ever having to put up any real cash and they can be used to manipulate markets in gross and ugly ways. ...
"Considering this amplification effect, unethical executives could engineer the bankruptcy of their own company, and thus, arrange for their company to needlessly default on their bonds so as to collect on their credit derivatives contracts in secret, offshore accounts. The trick to pulling this fraud off is that the bankruptcy must be sudden and unexpected, with unavoidable loss in the company's bonds."
Sounds a lot like Bear Stearns, doesn't it?
Since their demise, I have heard from more than one credible source that the bankruptcy of Bear Stearns was a highly sophisticated pump-and-dump scheme. While the Bear Stearns bailout probably cost the American taxpayer something like $35 billion, Bear Stearns held credit default contracts carrying an outstanding value of $2.5 trillion.
Gulp.
Regardless of the $35 billion price tag, the rescue at Bear Stearns did nothing but buy time. The rescue did nothing to protect the broader economic system. One could even argue that the federal government's intervention will ultimately encourage riskier, more speculative behavior on Wall Street. Maybe even corrupt, criminal behavior. ...
At the podium, Soros said, "I consider this to be the biggest financial crisis of my lifetime. The superbubble that has been inflating for the last 25 years is finally bursting." Soros warned that the hyperinflating consequences of funny money, like swaps and derivatives, may last through "our lifetime, maybe the lifetimes of our children."
Soros saw the seizing up of credit markets at about this time last year. He bet his hedge fund on it. Seeing something that very few other people saw or intuited, he came into his office and made a few bets. By the end of the summer, the subprime mess was front-page news, and his last-minute bets paid off roughly $4 billion, a 32 percent return for his fund. ...
John Sakowicz is a Sonoma County investor who was a cofounder of a multibillion-dollar offshore hedge fund, Battle Mountain Research Group.
[snip] Regardless of the $35 billion price tag, the rescue at Bear Stearns did nothing but buy time. The rescue did nothing to protect the broader economic system. One could even argue that the federal government's intervention will ultimately encourage riskier, more speculative behavior on Wall Street. Maybe even corrupt, criminal behavior. ...
At the podium, Soros said, "I consider this to be the biggest financial crisis of my lifetime. The superbubble that has been inflating for the last 25 years is finally bursting." Soros warned that the hyperinflating consequences of funny money, like swaps and derivatives, may last through "our lifetime, maybe the lifetimes of our children."
"Despite some eerie parallels between the position of the United States today and that of the British Empire a century ago, there are key differences. Britain's decline was driven by bad economics."
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Jacek, unfortunately, economic downturns tend to produce the opposite of enlightenment. History shows that. People do not become more "enlightened" when things go bad economically, they get nationalistic and aggressive. European history shows that very clearly. Richer people also have time for things like worrying about the environment. Poor people are too caught up in subsistence living to think about the "higher" things.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on March 18, 2008 4:21 PM
I have a lot of respect for Dan Gross over at Slate.... That said, I have some significant reservations about his article currently headlining the site, "The Rise of American Incompetence." Dan posits that America's failure to get its financial house in order is causing foreign investors in our currency to look elsewhere. So far so good. But then he uses this to argue, without strong evidence, that such flight from American public-finance mismanagement shows the world is giving up on American business management. ...
This is, first off, a category mistake, conflating two types of management. There's the management of the budget and the economy, and then there's corporate management. ... Where is the evidence that because of poor decisions on the government's part, our executives and corporate titans are now "laughingstocks"? http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank
No, US corporate titans are not, repeat: not, laughingstocks! Far from it:
With the assistance of the Federal Reserve, JPMorgan Chase acquired its rival Bear Stearns for about 1 percent of the bank's value two weeks ago. Bear Stearns Chairman Jimmy Cayne was playing cards in a tournament last week as the buyout transpired, AND HE WAS WINNING: http://www.reuters.com/article/bankingFinancial/idUSN1649428620080317 (via Harper's Magazine)
Western managers are falling behind their Chinese counterparts in education and training, research has warned.
China has the fastest growing global economy and - according to a study by the Institute of Leadership & Management (ILM) - also boasts a highly ambitious, sophisticated and commercially astute management population that poses a challenge to managers and businesses in the West.
The Global Management Challenge, which surveyed 327 managers in the UK, US, France and China, reveals that Chinese managers are underestimated by their Western counterparts and are launching a serious challenge to established Western business and management practices.
On the issue of management training, Western managers are falling behind their Eastern counterparts not only were Chinese managers better educated to begin with, they also received more in-house training than their peers in the West.
Penny de Valk, ILM chief executive, said: "Messages we traditionally receive about China portray an authoritarian, sweat shop economy that has scant regard for the environment or concepts such as corporate social responsibility.
"In contrast, our report reveals a more sophisticated picture of Chinese managers. They see themselves as having a high regard for rules, customer focus and their impact on the environment. They value wisdom and knowledge, and while willing to acknowledge weaknesses, are also determined to correct them."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on June 26, 2008 10:04 AM
Western managers are falling behind ....
"In contrast, our report reveals a more sophisticated picture of Chinese managers. They see themselves as having a high regard for rules, customer focus and their impact on the environment. They value wisdom and knowledge, and while willing to acknowledge weaknesses, are also determined to correct them."
So is Joseph Stiglitz...
Fannie’s and Freddie’s free lunch
By Joseph Stiglitz
Much has been made in recent years of private/public partnerships. The US government is about to embark on another example of such a partnership, in which the private sector takes the profits and the public sector bears the risk. The proposed bail-out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac entails the socialisation of risk – with all the long-term adverse implications for moral hazard – from an administration supposedly committed to free-market principles.
Defenders of the bail-out argue that these institutions are too big to be allowed to fail. If that is the case, the government had a responsibility to regulate them so that they would not fail. No insurance company would provide fire insurance without demanding adequate sprinklers; none would leave it to “self-regulation”. But that is what we have done with the financial system.
THE Big Mac Index is The Economist's light-hearted guide to exchange rates. The index is based on the theory of purchasing-power parity, which says that exchange rates should move to make the price of a basket of goods the same in each country. Our basket contains just one item, a Big Mac hamburger. The exchange rate that leaves a Big Mac costing the same everywhere is our fair-value yardstick. Many of the currencies in the Fed's major-currency index, including the euro, the British pound, Swiss franc and Canadian dollar, are overvalued and trading higher than last year's burger benchmark. Only the Japanese yen could be considered a snip. The dollar still buys a lot of burger in the rest of Asia too. China's currency is among the most undervalued, but a little bit less so than a year ago.
Last week Zimbabwe's central bank unveiled a 100 billion dollar banknote to cope with inflation running at 2.2m%. ... But Robert Mugabe has some way to go before he can claim for his country the accolade of printing the highest-denomination banknote. A note issued in post-war Hungary came with a mind-boggling 19 digits.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Record earnings for Exxon, the world’s largest publicly traded oil company, have become routine as the surge of oil prices in recent years has filled its coffers. The company’s income for the second quarter rose 14 percent, to $11.68 billion, compared to the same period a year ago. That beat the previous record of $11.66 billion set by Exxon in the last three months of 2007: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/business/01oil.html
* * *
Senator “Uncle” Ted Stevens, the longest-serving Republican in the [US] Senate and “Alaskan of the Century,” was indicted for seven felonies related to unreported gifts worth $250,000 from an oil-services company. The alleged gifts included a Land Rover, a Viking gas grill, and construction that doubled the size of his home. “There is a lot of comity on our committee,” said an unnamed Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee. “I don't think any of this is going to have an impact on his earmarks.” (Harper's Weekly Review)
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Everyone seems to be watching the economy a little more closely, whether they're most concerned about the foreclosure crisis, credit card debt, or paying for college. Media coverage often misses the boat on these complex issues, but lively economics blogs have stepped in to fill the void, delving into politics and media criticism while deciphering the latest research. Here are a few to get you started: http://www.utne.com/2008-08-06/Media/Econ-101-A-Crash-Course-in-Economics-Blogs.aspx?blogid=34&utm_medium=email&utm_source=iPost
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
A beneficial slump
The British housing bubble seems to have burst: The most recent figures show the largest slump in housing prices since 1992. The Times finds that this has "clear benefits for the economy": "If we are now set for a prolonged period of modest, or negative, returns from housing, then this should encourage a more rational allocation of household wealth. People will think more seriously about the attractions of renting rather than owning their home. With a larger and more active rental sector of the housing market, people will be freer to move home in order to take up attractive new jobs for which they are suited. There will consequently be fewer people who commute long distances to work. That will lessen the burden to them, and reduce the costs to the environment. ... Those who have invested heavily in property have not been 'greedy': they have made rational decisions given the bias in our economy to owner-occupation. That bias has real costs, and there should be few tears if it is now passing." The Times (United Kingdom) http://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=08/08/2008&cat=ECONOMY&pi=1#1
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
That's because they know that when it comes to the worst, we will all bail them out anyway and I will show even more care and compassion by repeating Post #4597.
The 2008 election has many unusual aspects, but none is more bizarre than the sorry spectacle of the bailout for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
American voters are like the lambs being led to slaughter and at the very height of the presidential campaign. Yet not a peep of protest from John McCain and Barack Obama, not even a hint of the righteous anger injured taxpayers will rightly feel as they figure out the deal for themselves. The rescue of the two giant mortgage firms is another huge expenditure of the public's money--one or two hundred billion dollars this time--to reassure bankers and financiers the government stands by them in their troubles, whatever the costs.
Although Congress created the moral hazard that has become the taxpayer rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Members plan to hold hearings to opine about it anyway. They should put themselves at the witness table. But since they won't, the least they can do is ask Treasury to explain its bailout for billionaire subordinated debt holders.
We're referring to the holders of some $11 billion in Fannie and $4 billion in Freddie subordinated debentures. ...
With the weekend bailout, however, those investors can buy another vacation home, or three. On Monday, yield spread premiums on Fannie Mae subordinated debt maturing in 2011 plunged by three full percentage points to a bid of 3.50 points. Investing rarely gets better than this: Buy paper you know carries a higher risk but also a higher return, and then have Uncle Sugar eliminate that risk so you also make a windfall profit.
At the very least Mr. Paulson could have gone to these investors with a restructuring proposal, asked for some cash and given them a new piece of paper. Instead, the Treasury Secretary has set a terrible precedent, leaving subordinated debt holders at other large financial institutions to calculate that they too will receive a government bailout if they stumble.
Both Treasury and the Federal Housing Finance Agency said they don't know who now holds Fan and Fred sub debt. But it's a fair guess it is mostly some of the world's richest people and largest financial institutions. Pimco's Bill Gross, who manages the world's biggest bond fund, had been agitating for weeks for a bailout. Asked about his Fannie and Freddie positions, a spokesman told us, "we don't discuss our holdings." Our guess is Mr. Gross is a lot richer after the bailout than he was last week. Ditto for Goldman Sachs, which also declined comment and where Mr. Paulson used to work.
We hope someone on Capitol Hill asks Mr. Paulson for a list of these big winners, so taxpayers can understand who is getting richer on their dime.
"Decoupling" is the notion that the rest of the global economy could power ahead even as its biggest single motor, the United States, stalled. Decoupling was trumpeted by many of the international grandees at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, last January and gained currency in certain circles (including the one surrounding my desk). But now it, too, seems to have been cancelled.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski
Although Congress created the moral hazard that has become the taxpayer rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Members plan to hold hearings to opine about it anyway.
Wow, they're going to hold hearings? Who knows what they might do next? They might - gasp - prepare a report! Now they're getting serious.
The investment bank Goldman Sachs suffered a 70% slump in quarterly profits to $845m (£475m) as it caught a chill from the ill wind blown by the global credit crunch. ...
Until recently, Goldman was viewed as one of Wall Street's few winners from the global credit crunch. It made record profits last year when its traders correctly forecast a slump in the sub-prime mortgage industry. ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/16/goldmansachs.wallstreet
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Even "Senator John McCain, who was criticized by Democrats Monday for saying that the fundamentals of the economy were strong on a day that the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the sale of Merrill Lynch sent stocks plunging, went out of his way Tuesday to make it clear that he understood that Wall Street was in “crisis.’’ " http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/mccain-calls-for-commission-to-study-wall-street-woes/?hp
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 17, 2008 3:26 AM Even "Senator John McCain, who was criticized by Democrats Monday for saying that the fundamentals of the economy were strong on a day that the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the sale of Merrill Lynch sent stocks plunging, went out of his way Tuesday to make it clear that he understood that Wall Street was in “crisis.’’ "
Classic Orwellian double-speak; McCain wants to simultaneously state that everything is OK and that everything is not OK.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
Originally written by David Kallans on September 11, 2008 11:02 AM
Wow, they're going to hold hearings? Who knows what they might do next? They might - gasp - prepare a report! Now they're getting serious.
The CEO’s that rode the bubble not considering it would bust get a bailout, and although reputations may be tarnished I doubt any will worry about the day to day needs of gas, food, shelter. The average worker, however, will not receive a bailout and will worry about gas, food and shelter. Possibly a good title for the report would be, “Your screwed!”
A Telegraphanalysis of government figures shows how bonuses for City workers and other financial services professionals have continued to soar, exceeding previous records by more than £500 million.
The £12.6 billion sum would almost match the £15 billion hole that has emerged in the accounts of British banks as much of their profitability proved temporary. ...
City commentators had expected financiers' annual bonus tallies to fall this year. But calculations using the Office for National Statistics' wage figures show that the financial sector made £12.6 billion in bonuses alone in the first three months.
That is up by about four per cent on last year, when first-quarter payments totalled £12.1 billion. The figure for the same period in 2006 was £9.7 billion.
Most of the bonus money went to investment bankers and hedge fund managers. Dozens at Goldman Sachs each had £5 million bonuses over Christmas, with one trader taking more than £10 million. Bob Diamond, of Barclays, received £35 million, despite the bank writing off £2.2 billion in bad debts. ...
The median base salary for CEOs in the 2008 survey is $162,750, compared to $142,480 in 2007, with base plus bonus at $176,371 ($154,565 in 2007) and total compensation at $178,265 (compared to $157,500 for the previous year). ...
The disparity in cash compensation between bank CEOs and credit union CEOs continues, especially when comparing the combination of base salary and bonus pay. That gap widened between the chief executives of smaller financial institutions, those with less than $250 million in assets. For example, at organizations with less than $100 million in assets, the median base plus bonus pay of bank executives increased from $119,400 in 2007 to $148,100, while compensation for credit union CEOs rose more slowly from $100,000 in 2007 and $103,767 in this year's survey. ...
The survey's executive summary includes an eye-opening 10-year comparison of CEO compensation. In 1998, the median base salary was $82,860 and the compensation total was $92,825, compared to $162,750 and $178,265 this year. That's a 96.4 percent and 92 percent increase, respectively. Over the same period, the average bonus increased from $11,943 (or 10.25 percent of average base pay) to $32,693 (13.91. percent). ...
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
If I were only bigger I, too, could make financial blunders in the billions and receive a bailout. Instead, I must work hard, watch my pennies, and live within my meager budget. Too bad there isn't such a thing as a "Translator Lifeline", or is there?
David
By MADLEN READ, AP Business Writer http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080917/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street
NEW YORK - Wall Street stumbled again Wednesday, with anxieties about the financial system still running high even after the government bailed out the insurer American International Group Inc. The Dow Jones industrial average dropped about 300 points.
The Federal Reserve is giving a two-year, $85 billion loan to AIG in exchange for a nearly 80 percent stake in the insurer, after it lost billions in the risky business of insuring against bond defaults.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by D. T. on September 17, 2008 7:15 PM
Instead, I must work hard, watch my pennies, and live within my meager budget.
Yeah, but it's also thanks to the money from your savings or deposits (as used for frivolous loans) that all the bailouts were possible. Without the frivolous lending, we would have no credit crunch and no bailouts. So know the power of your money in the hands of US bankers! You may not be bailed out but they, thanks to your money and the way they have used it, will!
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
There is even better news than that about your money doing wonders in the hands of bankers:
Why the Economy Might Benefit McCain When asked which party can best handle the economy, voters give Democrats a 20-point advantage over Republicans. Consequently, the timing of the Wall Street collapse would seem to boost Democratic candidate Barack Obama's popularity. Not so, according to John Dickerson. Listen to the segment. http://www.slate.com/id/2200283/
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 18, 2008 12:40 PM
There is even better news than that about your money doing wonders in the hands of bankers:
Indeed!
The price per word has gone up. Substantially.
“Treasury’s 840-word legislative bailout proposal comes to more than $830 million per word,” Stephen Ellis, the vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a fiscal watchdog group, said in a statement on Monday, adding that “when they come up with a title, that will drive the average dollar per word down.”
Global stock markets lost $3.1 trillion in four days, and American International Group (AIG), the world's biggest insurance company and a leader in the $62 trillion credit-default swap market, was nearly bankrupted. AIG was replaced in the Dow Jones Industrial Average by Kraft, the makers of Cheez Whiz.
“My first instinct,” said President George W. Bush, “was to let the market work, until I realized, being briefed by experts… It turns out that there's a lot of interlinks through the financial system.” The Bush Administration's three-page draft bill would permit the Treasury Department to buy up to $700 billion—$2,000 per American—in bad, mortgage-related debt, and would exempt the Treasury from administrative supervision, from legal challenges by any court, and from rules pertaining to government contracts.
Finance industry lobbyists tried to stop lawmakers from limiting executive salaries at bailed-out companies, and fought to get their companies hired to control the assets that the Treasury will oversee.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Why has getting yourself into debt become the latest trend in Romania? Sorin Ionita, a political scientist, asks in the Romanian daily Evenimentul zilei: "In my grandfather's day owing money to friends or to the bank was something to be ashamed of. Such a situation was looked upon with disapproval. This is not to say that people did not borrow back then, but social pressure prevented them from flinging themselves headlong into adventures, real estate speculation and the like. Everyone pointed at a neighbour who had gotten into debt. Yet he was still treated like a good friend with a passing illness who needed to be closely monitored until he recovered. ... Nowadays being in debt is by definition a sign of having mastered the intricacies of modern capitalism. After 1990 the Romanians were quick to realise that it's not cool to have no debts. Like the Americans they preferred to swim on a huge wave of cryptic and apparently safe loans ... No doubt among your own circle of acquaintances there is a successful shop-owner who lives according to the well-known aphorism: Brothers, only the poor have their savings in the bank, the rich have loans." Evenimentul Zilei (Romania) http://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=23/09/2008&cat=ECONOMY&pi=1#1
Jacek (still believing that frightening them and shackling them in debt is the best way to go)
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 9:51 AM
Jacek (still believing that frightening them and shackling them in debt is the best way to go)
Wall Street disagrees and vehemently so:
The stratospheric pay packages of Wall Street executives have become a lightning rod issue as Congress shapes a $700 billion bailout for financial firms. Proposals circulating on Capitol Hill vary, but they all would impose some limits or approval authority on salaries of executives whose firms seek help.
The moves in Washington mirror the popular outcry — in constituent e-mail messages and postings in the blogosphere — over the prospect of Wall Street’s tarnished titans walking away with tens of millions of dollars a year while taxpayers pick up the bill.
But Wall Street, its lobbyists and trade groups are waging a feverish lobbying campaign to try to fight compensation curbs. Pay restrictions, they say, would sap incentives to hard work and innovation, and hurt the financial sector and the American economy. ...
Huh? Using other people's money, I receive huge compensation for taking incredible risks and when I lose other people's money, I retain my own big slice of the pie, declare bankruptcy, and leave you fools with not even a crumb...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on September 24, 2008 10:16 AM
Using other people's money, I receive huge compensation for taking incredible risks and when I lose other people's money, I retain my own big slice of the pie, declare bankruptcy, and leave you fools with not even a crumb...
What is wrong with this picture?
Why such a tough nut to crack first thing in the morning, Nanna? I have been puzzling over this one for the last 10 minutes and still can't see anything wrong about it. So I have looked up all the individual terms in various dictionaries:
banking = using other people's money for one's own profit
responsibility, hence taking risks, does require adequate compensation
when you lose everything, the law protects you with various bankruptcy chapters, bailouts, etc., so that you can get a fresh start
fools, by definition, deserve no crumbs
So will you, please, tell me whether there is something wrong with your picture and if so, WHAT IS IT?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on September 24, 2008 11:47 AM
those without a crumb left to share...
Well, that's why the current $700 million bailout means only just $2.33 per statistical American... Surely those without a crumb left to share can also afford that, even if they lost all their savings. And if those who do have a crumb left to share bothered to take more seriously my Post #4597, we would all get a fresh start sooner and could go back to business as usual.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 11:57 AM
if those who do have a crumb left to share bothered to take more seriously my Post #4597, ...
Finally someone has listened...
The billionaire Warren Buffett will invest $5 billion in the investment bank Goldman Sachs as part of the bank's efforts to raise $7.5 billion in fresh capital, a Goldman Sach spokesman said Tuesday: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/24/business/24goldman.php
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 11:57 AM
we would all get a fresh start sooner and could go back to business as usual.
Looking for a fresh start...
The Danish Bankers Association Chairman Peter Schültze tells Berlingske Business that the sector is working around the clock to find a model to ensure that no banks go bankrupt as a result of insufficient liquidity. Competitiveness Schültze says a model is being sought to ensure that illiquid banks and financial institutions can be taken over without going bankrupt. But the model must be acceptable to all parties and must not be anti-competitive due to EU rules.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 11:57 AM
the current $700 million bailout
I am glad Americans are not up yet to correct my contribution to A costly error thread.
It was just a typo. Should be $700 billion instead of million. The average cost to an American is not $2.33 but $2.33K. What the heck! Still no big deal.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 12:49 PM
It was just a typo. Should be $700 billion instead of million. The average cost to an American is not $2.33 but $2.33K. What the heck! Still no big deal.
That's the way the cookie crumbles - nothing but crumbs
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 6:49 AM
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 11:57 AM
the current $700 million bailout
I am glad Americans are not up yet to correct my contribution to A costly error thread.
It was just a typo. Should be $700 billion instead of million. The average cost to an American is not $2.33 but $2.33K. What the heck! Still no big deal.
Jacek
The cost per captia is not particularly meaningful, as it supposes that babies would also pay. One needs to look at the cost per taxpayer. I don't have those numbers, but once you remove children and others who don't pay taxes (the unemployed, the disabled, those who are too poor to have taxable income), the figure would be significantly higher. Thousands of dollars, for families that can't pay their mortgages or health care premiums, is serious money.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by David Kallans on September 24, 2008 4:20 PM
it supposes that babies would also pay.
Well, David, you've got a point about infants, but I would not be so indulgent to older children whom we could put to work to get that couple of thou back from everyone. I don't mean Asian sweatshops, God forbid, but like schools used as factories after hours, with nice MTV on, I do see some hidden potential there we could tap to reduce the burden for the American families you have mentioned. (Which burden I would not exaggerate because every year we spend at least $500 billion on our essential defenses, so the proposed bailout is just slightly over the one-year indispensable military expenditure.)
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
An informative way to look at the cost of the bailout is the cost per household, as that is an economic unit, and the numbers I've heard are that it will cost around 10,000 USD per household.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
(removed)
RE: Economy
The first thing that should be done is to seize all of the assets of the CEO’s that ran the companies into the ground. Hmmm, come to think about it the “overseers” should have their assets seized too. It won’t by any means correct the problem, but future CEO’s would be very cautious in carrying out such atrocities, perhaps.
David – who doesn’t have an extra $10,000 to spare at the moment. Anyone with an extra 10K is welcome to contribute on my behalf.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
(removed)
RE: Economy
By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_markets
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday warned Americans and lawmakers reluctant to pass a $700 billion financial rescue plan that failing to act fast risks wiping out retirement savings, rising foreclosures, lost jobs and closed businesses. "Our entire economy is in danger," he said.
Hmmm. Has he (Bush) been outside of the White House lately? Many have lost their retirement savings due to failed companies. Foreclosures have been rampant for some time. Layoffs are a very common occurrence, and just driving down the street one can see the number of closed businesses.
Although a bailout would benefit the here and now, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to let the pieces fall where they may and then see what needs to be done to get us going in the right direction. I am for helping out Main Street America, but I am against helping huge corporations and their management.
David - who is still waiting for a 10K contribution from his fellow translators.
Originally written by David Kallans on September 24, 2008 4:20 PM
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 6:49 AM
the $700 billion bailout
...the cost per taxpayer. ... Thousands of dollars, for families that can't pay their mortgages or health care premiums, is serious money.
When I lived in the States, it was cheaper to simply pay out of pocket for routine medical check-ups. Then I got older! When the health insurance premium hit approx. $ 900.00 per month, I knew Post #156094it was time to leave.
"Although inflation in insurance premiums has moderated in recent years, the Kaiser survey found that employees were continuing to spend more in medical costs, including their share of yearly insurance premiums. Employees are paying an average of $3,354 in premiums for family coverage, more than double the amount they paid in 1999. The total cost for family coverage now averages $12,680 a year, up 5 percent from 2007.
And as people are paying more, they are finding the higher expense less affordable. In the study by the nonpartisan Center for Studying Health System Change, based on its national survey of households, nearly one of every five families had problems paying medical bills last year. More than half of these families said they borrowed money to pay these expenses, and nearly 20 percent of those having difficulty said they contemplated declaring personal bankruptcy as a result of their medical bills. …
Andy Kessler is a former (!) hedge fund manager writing for The Wall Street Journal, so he must know what he is saying. (Although, I think, in Poland we simply refer to those tricks as pyramid schemes...)
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
David,
Before Kessler, Paulson and the WSJ make the 10K for you, you can act on your own on the following piece which I just got in the mail and for which I am not responsible. I have only highlighted my favorite pick below:
Fellow Investor,
Since the Conventions ending, I'm starting to get extremely nervous.
Why? Because the result of the 2008 Presidential Election is now 100% predictable.
You see, whether McCain or Obama ends up in the White House come January, one thing is clear: The Democrats will retain control of both houses of Congress and the Bush tax cuts that we investors have enjoyed for so long will be GONE FOR GOOD!
The increase in capital gains taxes will create a stock selling frenzy for investors to grab profits before taxes jump from 15% to 35%!
If you fail to understand this undeniable fact-—you’ll likely get crushed come November…and miss out on some truly spectacular profits after that as the market will favor a new set of companies in new sectors.
For these reasons, I urge you to read my new special report “Surprise Winners andLosers of the 2008 Election Year.”
* 256 stocks to sell now. Each one of these companies has been a major profit-taker under the old tax system and will get crushed in the months and year ahead.
* 5 stocks you can safely buy RIGHT NOW for potential gains of 50%-75% by this time next year. These are the best-positioned companies in today’s top growth industries that will side-step the carnage that's headed your way.
* Why commodities and oil services socks will surge again in 2009 no matter which direction oil goes.
* The next Apple—and a Canadian profit-taker to boom! Up just 212% in 18 months with more on the way.
* Europe's explosive solar boom—two best US stocks to own Now.
PLUS: How to invest $50,000 NOW in light of the changes that are headed your way.
Jacek
P.S. One thing I would like to endorse is the Central and Eastern Europe's explosive solar boom. We have just ended 2+ weeks of 100% cloudiness in Poland at 10 centigrades. Those were the two last weeks of the astronomic summer so you can imagine the explosive solar boom here in the fall and winter. So
Yes, I have seen the recommendations in Post #152412 and the posts following, but I still don't understand the most basic of issues related to the Subprime mess and the Bail-out package. I have bought and sold two houses and my experiences don't match any of this. To sound modern: I can't relate. I am thoroughly confused. I am missing the boat somewhere, hence these "door-knob" questions.
My questions are in italics under each paragraph.
Consider the Bear Stearns Alt-A Trust 2006-7, a $1.3 billion drop in the sea of risky loans. Here’s how it worked:
As the credit bubble grew in 2006, Bear Stearns, then one of the leading mortgage traders on Wall Street, bought 2,871 mortgages from lenders like the Countrywide Financial Corporation.
1. Bear Stearns (BS) bought low hoping to sell high?
2. Were the mortgages on sale/sold because the homeowners had defaulted on their loans?
3. Or, did BS move at the earliest 'delinquent borrower' moment, thus not giving the borrower any chance of recovering?
The mortgages, with an average size of about $450,000, were Alt-A loans — the kind often referred to as liar loans, because lenders made them without the usual documentation to verify borrowers’ incomes or savings. Nearly 60 percent of the loans were made in California, Florida and Arizona, where home prices rose — and subsequently fell — faster than almost anywhere else in the country.
We know that banks/lenders make loans without documentation and charge sky high interest rates for the favor.
1. Are the sky-high interest rates partly or wholly the reason why borrowers default?
3. Can one suppose that the lender lends hoping that the borrowers will default?
4. Were foreclosures the main reason why home prices rose and fell so quickly?
5. Do borrowers borrow knowing they will default? Why?
I have questions about the following, but I'll leave them for the moment...
Bear Stearns bundled the loans into 37 different kinds of bonds, ranked by varying levels of risk, for sale to investment banks, hedge funds and insurance companies.
If any of the mortgages went bad — and, it turned out, many did — the bonds at the bottom of the pecking order would suffer losses first, followed by the next lowest, and so on up the chain. By one measure, the Bear Stearns Alt-A Trust 2006-7 has performed well: It has suffered losses of about 1.6 percent. Of those loans, 778 have been paid off or moved through the foreclosure process.
But by many other measures, it’s a toxic portfolio. Of the 2,093 loans that remain, 23 percent are delinquent or in foreclosure, according to Bloomberg News data. Initially rated triple-A, the most senior of the securities were downgraded to near junk bond status last week. Valuing mortgage bonds, even the safest variety, requires guesstimates: How many homeowners will fall behind on their mortgages? If the bank forecloses, what will the homes sell for? Investments like the Bear Stearns securities are almost certain to lose value as long as home prices keep falling.
While it is difficult to pinpoint the number of patients or practitioners, experts in psychology and financial planning say the number of professionals offering to treat money disorders has multiplied in the last few years. ...
The financial storm thundering from Wall Street is likely to force many people to examine their relationships with money well beyond their portfolios and bank accounts, some psychologists say. Even before this month’s dire news, an online survey by the American Psychological Association in June found that 75 percent of the more than 2,500 adults said money was the No. 1 source of stress in their lives. ...
I almost prefer this simple and transparent, er..., option:
strap
An option contract created by being long in one put option and two call options with the same underlying security, strike price, and maturity date. The contract can usually be bought at a lower total premium than the three options could be individually. Also called a triple option.
Jacek (intrigued by what they call an option created by being short in one call option and two put options with different underlying security, strike price, and maturity date...)
I almost prefer this simple and transparent, er..., option:
strap
An option contract created by being long in one put option and two call options with the same underlying security, strike price, and maturity date. The contract can usually be bought at a lower total premium than the three options could be individually. Also called a triple option.
Jacek (intrigued by what they call an option created by being short in one call option and two put options with different underlying security, strike price, and maturity date...)
I am sitting here with my tea winding my way from one trench* to another, senior, equity or mezzanine "floor", respectively and you post this %&?# which is so disconcerting that I might as well give it up and at once.
Nanna, who, while walking the dog had decided that she would no longer be afraid of financial 'stuff'...
"CDOs have been used as part of an accounting scheme which allows large financial institutions to move debt off their books by pooling their debt with other financial institutions and then bringing these debts back on to their books but now calling it an asset. ..."
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
(removed)
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on September 26, 2008 10:24 AM
I am sitting here with my tea winding my way from one trench* to another, senior, equity or mezzanine "floor", respectively and you post this %&?# which is so disconcerting that I might as well give it up and at once.
Nanna, who, while walking the dog had decided that she would no longer be afraid of financial 'stuff'...
*tranch
Nanna, do not feel alone in the tangled web of financial double-speak. Even the most brilliant financial minds could not prevent the economic collapse we are seeing in the U.S. Hmmm...? Come to think of it, I guess the only true brilliant financial minds were the ones who walked away with multi-million parachutes. The rest of us, well, we are S.O.L.
David – who's simple mind knows that what comes out of his bank account cannot be more than what goes in. Otherwise, he has a financial collapse.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on September 26, 2008 4:48 PM
...to move debt off their books ... and then bringing these debts back on to their books but now calling it an asset. ...
Why isn't that called fraud?
We have to take into account people's psychology, Nanna.
Once the government collects from David the required $10K for the bailout, David will be able to call the missing $10K an asset and carry on in a much better mood than if he had to worry about being deep in .... (no, that's "debt").
Originally written by D. T. on September 26, 2008 4:54 PM
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on September 26, 2008 10:24 AM
Nanna, who, while walking the dog had decided that she would no longer be afraid of financial 'stuff'...
Nanna, do not feel alone in the tangled web of financial double-speak.
Thank you, David. I do not feel alone. I have just never understood the many intricate, for lack of better word, ways of making money, and decided that I shouldn't bitch about not understanding the market etc., but apply myself since I now have more time. Since I can get help and suggestions related to the subject why not spend some time on it and stop being afraid of what I don't understand? If that makes any sense...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by David Kallans on September 26, 2008 5:02 PM
You can (and should) get more by having an interest-accruing account.
Is it true that the inflation rate in the US is now over 5%? We are getting there in Poland too. How much do American banks pay for deposits these days? Over here, it's up to 8% on 3-month deposits.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Jacek, savings accounts in the US typically offer very low rates of interest, perhaps just 1 or 2 %. You can get longer-term certificates of deposit which may give you 3 or 4 %. As inflation is greater than this, in real terms you lose money that is in the bank, but at least the value of the principle doesn't go down (as opposed to what is happening to stocks right now).
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 26, 2008 12:04 PM
the whole mess is actually meant not to be understood...
Seems to be not only my impression:
Although America’s housing collapse is often cited as having caused the crisis, the system was vulnerable because of intricate financial contracts known as credit derivatives, which insure debt holders against default. They are fashioned privately and beyond the ken of regulators — sometimes even beyond the understanding of executives peddling them. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28melt.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Greed has emerged as a unifying culprit in the current financial crisis and recession in the United States. John McCain blames the situation on “unbridled corruption and greed.” Barack Obama’s campaign has presented a plan to reform the “greed and excesses of Washington.” Not far beneath this rhetoric is the implication that both presidential candidates are ostensibly rejecting the Gordon Gekko, Wall Street mantra of “greed is good” for a more moral and less sinful worldview.
Although it is a sin, greed does have its benefits, according to Dr. Rebecca Blank, interviewed on Religion & Ethics Newsweekly. “It's greed that makes people work harder, be more productive, and helps the economy grow,” Blank says. Greed also may not have been behind every decision that led to the crisis. Blank points out that there were “a lot of people at the very beginning of this, the whole sub-prime crisis that started this off, who saw themselves as providing more funds for low-income families. They were doing a good thing.” http://www.utne.com/2008-09-23/Spirituality/An-Economy-of-Greed.aspx?blogid=28&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email
No one is denying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's just that the hard-working and well-intentioned bankers should be liable for disasters they cause like everybody else.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by David Kallans on September 26, 2008 5:33 PM in real terms you lose money that is in the bank, but at least the value of the principal doesn't go down (as opposed to what is happening to stocks right now).
From
Deposit insurance
Don't bank on it
Sep 29th 2008
Are your life savings protected?
AS BANKS tumble like skittles, customers across the world are eyeing their cash nervously. Savings are protected in around 100 countries, with varying degrees of generosity. Those spooked by a run on a bank in Hong Kong this month may have been particularly nervous because only HK$100,000 ($12,860) of their cash is protected, including interest. Ireland has recently extended its limit from €20,000 ($29,337) to €100,000, to reassure savers. In America the first $100,000 is guaranteed for each depositor at each bank, while Britain's savers are limited to £35,000 ($64,650) in one institution, although an increase is expected soon. It is not only a matter of how much is protected, of course, but also of how quickly and easily the savers would get it back.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 17, 2008 9:26 AM ...Senator John McCain was criticized by Democrats Monday for saying that the fundamentals of the economy were strong on a day that the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the sale of Merrill Lynch sent stocks plunging...
John McCain Explains What He Meant by Saying That the Fundamentals of the Economy Are Strong
The fundamentals are strong, my friends. The fundamentals are strong. The Democrats don't go along, my friends, but they're the ones who are wrong. Because what that word really means, my friends, is our great American workers. So anyone saying I'm wrong, my friends, is saying our workers are shirkers. So trust me to sort this all out, my friends. I've been in Congress the longest. American workers are strong, my friends. And those in the swing states are strongest.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Look at what one elitist Harvard moron pontificated over three years ago:
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on July 2, 2005 9:32 PM JULY 11, 2005
COVER STORY
Too Much Money A global savings glut is good for growth -- but risks are mounting
[snip] Look around the world, and extra money is piling up in all sorts of places.
[...]
The International Monetary Fund predicts that in 2005 the worldwide savings rate should hit its highest level in at least two decades.
[...]
Skittishness But the savings glut is creating new risks for the global economy, which is having a tough time absorbing the unanticipated flood of funds. Instead of going into productive investments, cheap money may be overheating spending and sending asset prices soaring too high, setting the stage for a future bust. "The odds of a catastrophic scenario have gone up," says Kenneth S. Rogoff, former chief economist at the IMF and a professor at Harvard University. History shows that excess liquidity can disappear overnight if investors start getting skittish and lose confidence, causing severe disruptions to markets that have gotten used to cheap money. A unexpected rise in inflation or interest rates could tank the bond market and burst the global housing bubble, which now stretches from Barcelona to Shanghai to San Francisco.
[snip] His dumb question? “Why are they lending money to people who can’t afford to pay it back?”
In 2006, Mr. Blumberg began bothering his friend Adam Davidson, an experienced business reporter at National Public Radio, about subprime loans. Mr. Davidson, who had a broad knowledge of global capital markets, patiently walked him through collateralized debt obligations, yield and risk curves, and the growing amount of international capital in need of a home. But Mr. Blumberg still didn’t get it. How could securities based on lending money to bad risks be good business?
“I was embarrassed for him,” Mr. Davidson said. “I understood how money flowed around the world and I was talking to big-picture thinkers.”
Soon, Mr. Blumberg was madly surfing the Web and torturing his wife and friends with arcane talk about loan syndication and credit-default swaps. “It was a very unhealthy obsession,” he says now. “I just couldn’t understand how they could expect to be paid off when everyone I knew was maxed out on their credit cards. And these were very big loans.” ...
The pair suggested that an excess of global capital — a doubling in available capital in just six years to $72 trillion — left a “giant pool of money” in need ofreturns. Enter mortgage-backed securities. A lot of them. ...
It was clear even last spring that the people who perpetrated this fraud knew at some level what they were doing.
Mr. Davidson said that the idiosyncrasy of the instruments, combined with the overlay of technology, allowed the traders to live in denial. They would sit at terminals and use data — historical data that had been gathered before they started giving out money to people with no ability to pay — and decide that the risks were manageable. All of it was unreal, ineffable, tough to know. Except the way it turned out, as Mr. Davidson notes near the end of the story.
“It’s as if the global pool of money thought it was putting trillions of dollars in a savings account, but really, half of it was going into a furnace. The money is gone, burned up, never to come back.”
That was five months ago, and now that same furnace is about to burn public money. ...
Mr. Blumberg said that back when they first started, “there were all these respected economists saying that no, it’s not a bubble, and yes, there would be a correction, but it would be a soft-landing and I think people were too intimidated to question that,” Mr. Blumberg said.
“That’s the story of my life, asking the stupid question,” he said. ...
[snip] ...according to what I hear from my betters in the world of finance, the most serious problems are not with the bundles of subprime mortgages themselves — a large but not lethal quantum as far as I can tell — but with derivatives contracts tied to subprime and other dicey debt. These contracts are superficially an attempt to “insure” against risks of default, hence the name “credit-default swaps.” In fact, they are an immense wager — which anyone with lots of money or borrowing ability can enter — about how mortgage-backed bonds, leveraged loan bonds, student loans, bonds, credit card bonds and the like will perform.
These wagers entail amounts many times larger than the total of subprime loans. In fact, there are roughly $62 trillion in credit-default swap derivatives out there, compared with about $1 trillion of subprime mortgages. These derivatives are “weapons of financial mass destruction,” in the prophetic words of Warren E. Buffett. (Apparently believing that the worst is over, at least for one big investment bank, Mr. Buffett is now investing in Goldman Sachs.) ...
If Mr. Paulson and Ben S. Bernake, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, didn’t see this train coming, what else have they missed? What other freight train is barreling down the track at us?
All of this would be bad enough. But by far the most terrifying item I read in my morning paper last week was this: Mr. Paulson demanded that Congress forbid judicial review of his decisions on use of the money in the mortgage bailout. This would amount to an abrogation of the Constitution. Not only would his decisions be sacrosanct and above the law, but so would the actions of his pals in the banking world in connection with this bailout. ...
...If Mr. Paulson and Ben S. Bernake, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, didn’t see this train coming, what else have they missed? What other freight train is barreling down the track at us?
All of this would be bad enough. But by far the most terrifying item...
"It's as if the global pool of money thought it was putting trillions of dollars in a savings account, but really, half of it was going into a furnace. The money is gone, burned up, never to come back.”
And now banana republic style, they just print some more?
"... Even before the House stunned the world on Monday by rejecting the Bush administration’s bailout bill, the Fed was already resorting to the oldest action in its book: printing money. ...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
From the timeline:
1997
Nobel Prize in Economics goes to these two happy gentlemen "for a new method to determine the value of derivatives"
Robert C. Merton
Myron S. Scholes
1/2 of the prize
1/2 of the prize
USA
USA
Harvard University Cambridge, MA, USA
Long Term Capital Management* Greenwich, CT, USA
b. 1944
b. 1941 (in Timmins, ON, Canada)
1998
*Long-Term Capital Management (LTCM) was a U.S. hedge fund which failed spectacularly in the late 1990s, ... Board of directors members included Myron Scholes and Robert C. Merton, who shared the 1997 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics.Initially enormously successful with annualized returns of over 40% in its first years, in 1998 it lost $4.6 billion in less than four months and became a prominent example of the risk potential in the hedge fund industry. The fund folded in early 2000. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management)
2003
"Derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction" --Warren Buffett
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by D. T. on September 26, 2008 4:54 PM
...what comes out of his bank account cannot be more than what goes in.
That's not the way banks think.
The key to understanding their mindset is to understand what securitization is about, i.e., how banks repackage their receivables and sell them on.
I don't know whether http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitization makes this any clearer, but they have a number of charts that should be of help. If you look, for example, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Borrowing_Under_a_Securitization_Structure.gif, you will see the mechanism that your taking out a loan from your bank triggers. If you think that your bank is happy with paying you 3% on your deposit and lending your money on at 8%, you are dead long. Look at that above chart and follow the four Steps listed on the right.
First, while you are servicing your loan and paying the 8% to your bank, they have already repackaged that account receivable and sold it in the form of securities to an Issuer who issues them in the form of bonds/notes to investors (see also the primer in Post #154933). So now, in addition to the original borrower (you), there is an army of fools who have bought debt securities based on your loan and paid for them to the Issuer and the original Bank in return for interest and in the hope of seeing their principal redeemed in a more or less distant future.
Just imagine what happens to this house of cards if the original borrower is a ninjna, i.e., "no income no job no assets," as that kind of borrowing was intensively encouraged... It leaves not only the greedy Bank but also the army of fools who bought notes based on the underlying non-performing loans stranded all over the world. Letting go such banks belly up may be a useful lesson for them, but what about the armies of fools, like various municipalities, who bought the securities trusting their high rating?
That's why governments are now pumping money into the system. To no avail, though, as the banks have practically stopped lending that money on because nobody trusts anybody anymore. Wait till you figure out what a "synthetic RMBS" is to fully understand why...
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 12:13 PM
First, while you are servicing your loan and paying the 8% to your bank, they have already repackaged that account receivable and sold it in the form of securities to an Issuer who issues them in the form of bonds/notes to investors
Okay, yes, so far so good. Here's where the film breaks: securites are asset backed. i.e., ABS, which "should" mean they are backed by assets, but in the case of repackaging the original loan and selling it to an Issuer it loses value, partly or wholly. How does it lose its assets? Or have I misunderstood?
I am slowing catching on, and thank you so much, J., for the lessons that in spite of very careful explanations are making my head spin
Bank failures have often arisen from excessive credit exposure to particular borrowers or groups of borrowers that were vulnerable to the same shocks. The further development of markets for transferring credit risk could, therefore, improve the stability and efficiency of the financial system. The credit derivatives market, in particular, has recently been growing rapidly: the notional principal outstanding is probably approaching US$1 trillion globally. But it is by no means fully mature; and has not been tested during an economic slowdown, when credit events tend to be bunched, in the US and Europe. The full realisation of the potential benefits therefore lies somewhere in the future.
So now we have tested it. Except that the two Nobel prize winners from Post #157014, who considerably contributed to the mess, already tried this trial and error method, with disastrous results, as many as 10 years ago when their fund went belly up...
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 1, 2008 1:34 PM in the case of repackaging the original loan and selling it to an Issuer it loses value, partly or wholly. How does it lose its assets?
The loan, initially, is an asset on the Bank's balance sheet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_sheet) but once it has been repackaged and sold, it is taken off the Bank's books. In fact, if you look again at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Borrowing_Under_a_Securitization_Structure.gif, you will see that the Borrower's "monthly payments" have now been channeled to the Issuer. It is now for the Issuer that that loan constitutes an asset. If it is properly serviced by the Borrower, it continues to be an asset, so the bonds/notes issued by the Issuer to the army of investors and backed by that asset which is the account receivable continue to perform. It is only when the Borrower defaults on his loan, which too often was frivolously granted to him out of the Bank's greed in the first place, that the whole elaborate structure collapses like a domino. The Issuer then has to write off such a loan and it ceases to be an asset... I think you may have wondered, though, what about the mortgage behind the bad loan because that property is the only real asset in this game. Well, that's why we have foreclosures, but as you know it is not always that the lender can effectively go after the borrower's assets to recoup his losses...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 3:29 PM
You are not alone...
A Pew Research Center poll released Wednesday found that 43 percent of all [US] voters admitted that they feel "confused" by the proposed plan to stabilize the financial markets. At the same time, voters grasp that something important is happening -- 54 percent say, in response to another question, that they are paying "a lot" of attention to the bailout debate in Washington. Pollster Andy Kohut, the director of the Pew Research Center, said that it was virtually "unparalleled" to have this simultaneous level of interest and confusion in a policy debate. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/01/bail_out/?source=newsletter
The problem with all those synthetic derivative games is that they are wagers where instead of exchanges of real money notional amounts are used. So when the whole house of cards collapses, no one really knows how many trillions need to be finally paid, by whom and to whom. Sorting this out while the domino continues to fall is even more difficult.
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 10:36 PM
The problem with all those synthetic derivative games is that they are wagers where instead of exchanges of real money notional amounts are used. So when the whole house of cards collapses, no one really knows how many trillions need to be finally paid, by whom and to whom. Sorting this out while the domino continues to fall is even more difficult.
Jacek
Welcome to the world of darkness!
Derivatives and hedge funds are old game. Now, witness the rise of dark pools where stock players do not get to feel the market depth of how much selling orders at what price or how much buying orders at what price are in the queue.
Those firms such as Goldman Sachs that have giant order flows already are obviously best positioned to fill orders in-house.
Not any more... Too bad it's too late...
On September 21, 2008, Goldman Sach's CEO, announced Goldman Sachs was going to change of status from broker to "Bank holding" and hence be able to seek liquidities from the Federal Reserve Board in consideration for higher regulation concerning its activities. http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our-firm/press/press-releases/current/bank-holding-co.html
Derivatives and hedge funds are old game.
So is securitization, except that in the 1970s when it was born, it only accounted for 1% of lending in the United States. Now it is behind 57% of all the money lent there.
Unlocking and firing as many neurons as possible. A loan that was issued to the Borrower at say, XYZ%, is repackaged, channeled to an Issuer at a lower interest rate (XY%) but the rate is dependent on how, "the assets are divided by the ratings firms that assess their value into different tranches: senior tranches (rated AAA), mezzanine tranches (AA to BB), and equity tranches (unrated). Losses are applied in reverse order of seniority and so junior tranches offer higher coupons (interest rates) to compensate for the added default risk. Since 1987, CDOs have become an important funding vehicle for fixed-income assets."
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 1, 2008 5:36 PM
A loan that was issued to the Borrower at say, XYZ%, is repackaged, channeled to an Issuer at a lower interest rate
Not necessarily, I would think, because if the Bank pushed, say, low-interest balloon mortgage loans to ninjnas (five years ago, US interest rates were 4+% lower than now) whereby they had to initially make very small payments and no one cared whether they would be able to come up with that bulk lump sum payment at maturity because what counted was a short-term gain, and those ninjna borrowers defaulted, when repackaging such "assets" in a junior tranche the Bank should offer a high interest rate adequate for junk bonds...
Yes, interest rates depend on the ratings and that system has now also been compromised, to the point that, from what I hear, a nominal premium is for the first time now demanded on US Treasury securities which are normally considered the safest in the world.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 6:58 PM
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 1, 2008 5:36 PM
A loan that was issued to the Borrower at say, XYZ%, is repackaged, channeled to an Issuer at a lower interest rate
Not necessarily, I would think, ... if the Bank pushed, say, low-interest balloon mortgage loans to ninjnas ... whereby they had to initially make very small payments and no one cared whether they would be able to come up with that bulk lump sum payment at maturity because what counted was a short-term gain, and those ninjna borrowers defaulted, when repackaging such "assets" in a junior tranche the Bank should offer a high interest rate adequate for junk bonds...
So, can we suppose that the main, or only, reason for making all those ninjna loans was the not too distant hope (certainty) that the Borrowers would eventually default thereby allowing the Bank to repackage the loans in order to get a higher yield?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 1, 2008 7:23 PM
...to get a higher yield?
Let's say a short-term injenction of capital because when selling debt repackaged as securities banks are instantly paid a price by investors who are happy as long as whoever sells them those debt instruments pays to them adequate interest, as funded by the original Borrower repaying his loan over the years in the background. The problem starts when the Borrower defaults and the Issuer becomes unable to service the junk he sold on to investors. In other words, instead of applying strict creditworthiness criteria in lending and waiting for decades to see all those mortgages repaid, with relatively limited cash flow for further loans in the meantime, banks try to skip those decades of tedious waiting for timely payments and, while still enjoying the trickle, they use their rights to sort of instantly get all that money back from the Borrower (to instantly put it to work) via investors who, in turn, are happy to lend them that money in exchange for adequate interest. So, I would say, since usury is banned and, besides, competition would naturally eliminate it, banks have to bend over backwards to come up with all those sophisticated ways of making money with other people's money. Because, as I said earlier, living off just a 5% spread is out of the question. It's like expecting translation agents to live off a 25% markup. 250% yes, but 25%...
Truly outrageous. This idea violates European and international human rights norms, so the government official attempts to side-step that by making the preposterous - and dangerous - assertion that pedophiles are not humans and therefore have no human rights. If that is true, then it would be legal to kill them, sell them into slavery, and any number of other things that humans are not properly subjected to. Similar remarks about the non-human nature of peoples were also made by Europeans about Jews, Muslims, heretical Christians, witches, the Romani, and any number of other peoples. ...
While I agree in principle with David, I would also support the idea that the US Congressional bail-out should include estrogen replacement therapy for financially foolish CEOs.
History will certainly remember Paul Newman as an icon of modern cinema. But he was far more than just an actor. Paul was a gentleman in the truest sense of the word who embodied the American ideals of extraordinary integrity, a tireless work ethic, a commitment to family, and a deep sense of responsibility to the people who made his success possible.
Paul used to joke that he had to keep making movies to support all of his philanthropic projects -- and that wasn't too far from the truth. ...
What many may not know is that he donated 100% of post-tax profits and royalties from the Newman's Own company to charities world-wide -- more than $250 million to date. ...
In today's economy Paul's ideals are even more salient. Business leaders should learn from his example and maintain or increase their corporate giving programs in these tough times. ...
* * *
We are told this is a "bailout for Wall Street." But if Americans are honest with themselves, they will admit that bankers are far from the only cause of our current predicament. The U.S. is living through the aftermath of a classic credit mania, one that all of us enjoyed while it lasted. We don't remember many protests when home prices were rising by 15% a year, or when interest rates stayed at 1% for a year and real interest rates were negative for far longer.
When Germany was facing a similar situation in the 20s, it stepped up production, rearmed and voted in the Nazis, but Zimbabwe's farm production seemed to have plunged to just 10% of the output before appropriation of white farmland by force, and people seemed to have stopped going to work as the salary becomes worthless almost immediately.
A result of mismangement or western sanctions? And waiting for a violent upheaval?
Mother tongues: English, Swahili Joined: October 25, 2005 Location: Kenya
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 9:24 PM
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 1, 2008 7:23 PM
...to get a higher yield?
Let's say a short-term injenction of capital because when selling debt repackaged as securities banks are instantly paid a price by investors who are happy as long as whoever sells them those debt instruments pays to them adequate interest, as funded by the original Borrower repaying his loan over the years in the background. The problem starts when the Borrower defaults and the Issuer becomes unable to service the junk he sold on to investors. In other words, instead of applying strict creditworthiness criteria in lending and waiting for decades to see all those mortgages repaid, with relatively limited cash flow for further loans in the meantime, banks try to skip those decades of tedious waiting for timely payments and, while still enjoying the trickle, they use their rights to sort of instantly get all that money back from the Borrower (to instantly put it to work) via investors who, in turn, are happy to lend them that money in exchange for adequate interest. So, I would say, since usury is banned and, besides, competition would naturally eliminate it, banks have to bend over backwards to come up with all those sophisticated ways of making money with other people's money. Because, as I said earlier, living off just a 5% spread is out of the question. It's like expecting translation agents to live off a 25% markup. 250% yes, but 25%...
Jacek
This sounds odd for a simple market like ours, because banks normally issue the bond and the rights, and then use the proceeds for long term lending at higher rates.
As for the investors, they somehow prefer to invest in debt instruments derived from those who are unable to pay than in municipal, corporate and sovereign bonds?
Looks like there is something fishy going on based on my skimming through the thread. By the end of this, there will probably be quite a number of people in prison or lunatic asylums.
Why not just go to the streets and lend at loan shark rates to anybody who says that they will repay?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Subprime Econ. 101
Originally written by Raymond Anthony on October 2, 2008 6:41 PM they somehow prefer to invest in debt instruments derived from those who are unable to pay than in municipal, corporate and sovereign bonds?
Believe me, if people* can buy anything, they will buy it. It can be a derivative wager or anything else from How virtual are you ready to go? for example.
In the early 1990s, when I was a foreign correspondent looking for my next overseas posting with The New York Times, I sought Japan. At the time, Tokyo was an awe-inspiring economic titan, arguably the most important capital outside the United States.
Then Japanese politicians, acting with the same sublime ineptitude that America's House of Representatives displayed this week, ignored a growing banking crisis and dithered on a bailout. And so I watched from Tokyo as a mighty economy melted like an iceberg in the Caribbean. ...
And, whether in Japan or the U.S., it's challenging for politicians to frame a bailout with the slogan: Save the jerks!
Japanese politicians didn't want to rescue such unpopular fat cats and didn't see any emergency. So Japan's economy slowly lost air, and the biggest losers were the small futon makers who couldn't get credit and the farmers on remote islands who lost ferry service when the government eventually had to cut back on spending.
For those of you accustomed to bull markets, who think we're sure to come out of this quickly, remember this: Japan's stock index is still less than one-third of its level of 19 years ago.
In 1993, after Japanese stocks had already tumbled for several years, an American friend told me that he was going to invest in Japanese stocks. "I don't know what they're going to do for the next couple of years," he said, "but we all know that over five years they'll recover and do better than American stocks." Since then, Japanese stocks have lost another 40 percent of their value. ...
Beginning in 1992, Congress pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase their purchases of mortgages going to low and moderate income borrowers. For 1996, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) gave Fannie and Freddie an explicit target -- 42% of their mortgage financing had to go to borrowers with income below the median in their area. The target increased to 50% in 2000 and 52% in 2005.
For 1996, HUD required that 12% of all mortgage purchases by Fannie and Freddie be "special affordable" loans, typically to borrowers with income less than 60% of their area's median income. That number was increased to 20% in 2000 and 22% in 2005. The 2008 goal was to be 28%. Between 2000 and 2005, Fannie and Freddie met those goals every year, funding hundreds of billions of dollars worth of loans, many of them subprime and adjustable-rate loans, and made to borrowers who bought houses with less than 10% down.
Fannie and Freddie also purchased hundreds of billions of subprime securities for their own portfolios to make money and to help satisfy HUD affordable housing goals. Fannie and Freddie were important contributors to the demand for subprime securities.
Congress designed Fannie and Freddie to serve both their investors and the political class. Demanding that Fannie and Freddie do more to increase home ownership among poor people allowed Congress and the White House to subsidize low-income housing outside of the budget, at least in the short run. It was a political free lunch.
The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) did the same thing with traditional banks. It encouraged banks to serve two masters -- their bottom line and the so-called common good. First passed in 1977, the CRA was "strengthened" in 1995, causing an increase of 80% in the number of bank loans going to low- and moderate-income families. ...
The Fed did its part, too. In 2003, the federal-funds rate hit 40-year lows of 1.25%. That pushed the rates on adjustable loans to historic lows as well, helping to fuel the housing boom.
The Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 and low interest rates -- along with the regulatory push for more low-income homeowners -- dramatically increased the demand for housing. Between 1997 and 2005, the average price of a house in the U.S. more than doubled. It wasn't simply a speculative bubble. Much of the rise in housing prices was the result of public policies that increased the demand for housing. Without the surge in housing prices, the subprime market would have never taken off.
Fannie and Freddie played a significant role in the explosion of subprime mortgages and subprime mortgage-backed securities. Without Fannie and Freddie's implicit guarantee of government support (which turned out to be all too real), would the mortgage-backed securities market and the subprime part of it have expanded the way they did?
Perhaps. But before we conclude that markets failed, we need a careful analysis of public policy's role in creating this mess. Greedy investors obviously played a part, but investors have always been greedy, and some inevitably overreach and destroy themselves. Why did they take so many down with them this time?
Part of the answer is a political class greedy to push home-ownership rates to historic highs -- from 64% in 1994 to 69% in 2004. This was mostly the result of loans to low-income, higher-risk borrowers. Both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, abetted by Congress, trumpeted that rise as it occurred. The consequence? On top of putting the entire financial system at risk, the hidden cost has been hundreds of billions of dollars funneled into the housing market instead of more productive assets. ...
Mr. Roberts is a professor of economics at George Mason University and a scholar at the Mercatus Center. His latest book is a novel on how markets work, "The Price of Everything: A Parable of Possibility and Prosperity" (Princeton University Press, 2008).
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
If someone asks me to give an opinion about the mess happening in US economy without looking too much at the huge amount of literature published these days everywhere, I would say that it is due to many factors among which:
- US economy may be built on democracy considered as total freedom of markets (deregulation, they said once), but it is not built on social democracy where a minimum is guaranteed to everybody, one of the best examples of this social democracy may be seen in Holland, and Scandinavian Countries: Economic freedom but the State guarantees the social services + more money you make, more taxes you pay.
- US is paying the price of its military extravangances. You cannot criss-cross the world in all directions making what you want, and allowing some companies to make incredible profits out of the military business and at the same time finance all that with the tax-payers money thinking that there will never be an invoice to pay one day;
- US liberalism (under the current administration) is savage and crazy. There is a culture in US where the rich show their wealth, let's remember a guy called Bill Gates. That amount of wealth is not due to the fact that the guy is smarter than others, but to a sick system that allowed Microsoft and others to accumulate that wealth (never happened before in the story of mankind that such amount of wealth be accumulated through business in such a shorter time).
- Internet and Digital technology allowed the accumulation of benefits that are unhealthy. The economic system that history taught us until now fixes the profit margins compared to costs to a certain level (let's venture and say 3 to 70 per cent for example, and as an average). IT technology thanks to the manipulation of information and its EXCLUSIVE USE through a battery of "copyrights and other bullshit systems" has allowed benefits of 300 per cent and more. Some pharmaceutical companies manipulating medical information technology make SO MUCH benefits THAT they are trying daily to create additional costs to fill the gap between costs (very low) and benefits (extravagantly high).
- the financial markets became totally independant from the real economic market of production of material goods. It means that the guys dealing with stocks have to make profits that are not related to the real state of the company that's connected with the shares (it's called speculation in correct words). Every year the CEO has to show profits to the shareholders to guarantee his post as CEO without worrying about other considerations, as firing employees, working in the interest of the nation, not suing weak parties as third world countries, and often against international law. War is one of these business for the military companies, just think about the interest of the military companies.
- It is very unfair when big companies collapse that the US tax-payer finance their bankruptcy. Did anyone finance the bakruptcy of the millions of small business that collapsed when the giant companies arrived everywhere in the world and made small business disappear.
- the positive point is that some States in the world are acquiring shares in big companies. It means "Etatisation, sorry i know it only in French" (Le Monde Diplomatique is speaking about: Socialization of Wall Street, how funny? See: the Day Wall Street became Socialist, in French) of these companies or part of them. This is socially very positive IF THE STATE works in the interest of the whole nation and not of some priviledged. Example: if the State owns part of some Health groups, he can use the benefits to offer free medicals services to the weakest part of the nation...
Conclusion: if big companies are sinking, let them sink! If the State wants to save them, it means they will belong in part to the nation and not to big names. Ís it the beginning of a new era of ethical capitalism, or just the same old blablablas in time of crisis???
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
(removed)
RE: Economy
The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. The middle class disappears. Ouadoud, I think you hit on some excellent points, and the one I think really stood out was – “- US is paying the price of its military extravagances. You cannot criss-cross the world in all directions making what you want, and allowing some companies to make incredible profits out of the military business and at the same time finance all that with the tax-payers money thinking that there will never be an invoice to pay one day.”
Our system, simply put, is that everyone is equal and has the same opportunities for moving from one class to another. This, initially, worked. Then, as the wealth became more and more concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer companies and individuals, the movement from one class to another became harder and harder. Unless one wins the lottery, inherits a fortune, or profits from illegal gains the old working hard will lead to success game has almost disappeared. The greed of WallStreet has nearly destroyed the lives on Main Street. I am 100% for protecting the people on Main Street. I am 100% against helping WallStreet. Instead of "bailing out" WallStreet, why not take the $7 billion and distribute it to Main Street whose incomes are less than X and let the WallStreet giants collapse as they may?
David – who thinks we have not hit economic bottom yet.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Post #157251 (on the demise of Japan as a result, apparently, of a credit crunch) and Post #157257 (on the fatal largesse of the US government towards low-income home buyers) are tantamount to taking hostages. They say "Mistakes were made," but we must now save the fat cats because they will drag us all down. What do you do when hostages are taken at gunpoint?
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 3, 2008 11:00 PM
What do you do when hostages are taken at gunpoint?
Jacek
D-day with European participation whether over Wall St or off the Somalian coast?
BTW, during the Asian financial crisis in the latter half of the 90s, US firms bought up the distressed assets (CDOs, etc) such as in South Korea or Indonesia and profited handsomely when the market turned around. Now, will the Asians buy out the US this time (assuming the subprime is salvageable)?
Each year's deficit spending adds to the federal debt, which is passed on to future generations. The net national debt has risen from $3.4 trillion to $4.6 trillion under Bush. Taxpayers will pay about $208 billion for the fiscal year starting Oct. 1 simply to cover interest costs on that debt. ... The money for interest payments on the debt goes to investors in Treasury bonds, such as the Chinese government. Foreigners now hold 46 percent of the Treasury's debt.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt, in 2007, the US public debt stood at $5.07 trillion of which still less than a half was owned by foreigners, mostly Japan and China. Is that why Japan collapsed?
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by D. T.
The greed of WallStreet has nearly destroyed the lives on Main Street. I am 100% for protecting the people on Main Street. I am 100% against helping WallStreet. Instead of "bailing out" WallStreet, why not take the $7 billion and distribute it to Main Street whose incomes are less than X and let the WallStreet giants collapse as they may?
I certainly agree that Wall Street greed is a major factor, but Main Street shares in the blame, although it is politically untenable to say so. It is the Main Streets of America that elected George Bush, that supported a burdensome war and encouraged deregulatory economic policies, and sought to benefit from easy credit when it suited them, that has made this situation possible. Every country gets the government, and the economy, it deserves.
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 3, 2008 11:51 PM
... in 2007, the US public debt stood at $5.07 trillion of which still less than a half was owned by foreigners, mostly Japan and China.
But treasury bonds are not something visible to the man in the street. When the US forced the abrupt appreciation of the Japanese yen in the 80s such as through the Plaza Accord from 360 to 80 to the dollar, the Japanese became rich overnight and bought real-AMERICAN assets such as the Rockefeller Center that is visible to every man in the street.
That set off the firecrackers!
It probably won't be politically pleasant if the Asians start buying up US real estate and iconic companies wholesale?
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
(removed)
RE: Economy
Originally written by David Kallans on October 3, 2008 10:53 AM
I certainly agree that Wall Street greed is a major factor, but Main Street shares in the blame, although it is politically untenable to say so. It is the Main Streets of America that elected George Bush, that supported a burdensome war and encouraged deregulatory economic policies, and sought to benefit from easy credit when it suited them, that has made this situation possible. Every country gets the government, and the economy, it deserves.
You're joking, right? I agree Main Street shares in the blame, certainly though not to the extent of Wall Street. And no, I certainly do not believe that we get what we deserve.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by D. T. on October 3, 2008 11:08 AM
Originally written by David Kallans on October 3, 2008 10:53 AM
I certainly agree that Wall Street greed is a major factor, but Main Street shares in the blame, although it is politically untenable to say so. It is the Main Streets of America that elected George Bush, that supported a burdensome war and encouraged deregulatory economic policies, and sought to benefit from easy credit when it suited them, that has made this situation possible. Every country gets the government, and the economy, it deserves.
You're joking, right? I agree Main Street shares in the blame, certainly though not to the extent of Wall Street. And no, I certainly do not believe that we get what we deserve.
David
Not joking. We all live in a world created by our actions and share in the blame and credit for what happens around us. If we are to anthropomorphize Main Street, Main Street allowed Wall Street to do what it has done, and was positively giddy when its 401ks kept rising, and was additionally more than willing to tolerate the failure of the Bush administration to conduct effective oversight that might have prevented this situation. Karma happens. It is always easier to blame "greedy" Wall Street, but that is where Main Street has its 401ks, so there ultimately is no difference between the two.
Originally written by David Kallans on October 3, 2008 5:17 PM
Originally written by D. T. on October 3, 2008 11:08 AM
And no, I certainly do not believe that we get what we deserve.
Karma happens.
There are different views on the matter. One view is that we choose the basic set-ups and conditions of our lives. That we choose where, when, how and why, while in a higher state that is usually forgotten when we are born. That we can choose whether to share (or not) in the lives of other people that we have known before. How we handle our lives is dependent on various factors one of which is how we take responsibility for our actions. Another factor is that we once knew what we needed to learn and set up our life circumstances to meet those challenges.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
I agree Nanna, if I understand correctly. We do, to a point, have control over our destiny according to our actions or inactions. Still, I would not say that everything we get we deserve. There are influences that are often beyond our personal control no matter what action we take. Also, some use their intellectual abilities to, well, take advantage of the less educated which, imho, compounds the problem. Regardless, each person should be responsible for their own actions or inactions, but we are not always playing on an even ball field.
Originally written by D. T. on October 3, 2008 6:42 PM
I agree Nanna, if I understand correctly. ..
It is difficult to understand and because I don't fully understand it, I may not have explained it very well.
Perhaps, David, you are familiar with the teachings of H.H. the Dalai Lama.
The Four Noble Truths His Holiness the Dalai Lama
When the great universal teacher Shakyamuni Buddha first spoke about the Dharma in the noble land of India, he taught the four noble truths: the truths of suffering, the cause of suffering, the cessation of suffering and the path to the cessation of suffering. Since many books contain discussions of the four noble truths in English, they (as well as the eightfold path) are very well known.1 These four are all-encompassing, including many things within them.
Considering the four noble truths in general and the fact that none of us wants suffering and we all desire happiness, we can speak of an effect and a cause on both the disturbing side and the liberating side. True sufferings and true causes are the effect and cause on the side of things that we do not want; true cessation and true paths are the effect and cause on the side of things that we desire. ...
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
Thank you, Nanna. Yes, it is somewhat difficult to completely understand –at least for me, although I am trying. Thank you for the link. I do believe there is something to this, even if only partially understood.
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
Originally written by D. T. on October 3, 2008 6:42 PM
I agree Nanna, if I understand correctly. We do, to a point, have control over our destiny according to our actions or inactions. Still, I would not say that everything we get we deserve. There are influences that are often beyond our personal control no matter what action we take. Also, some use their intellectual abilities to, well, take advantage of the less educated which, imho, compounds the problem. Regardless, each person should be responsible for their own actions or inactions, but we are not always playing on an even ball field.
David
Yes David. I fully share this balanced point of view. It is deep and wise! (my emphasis in bold blue)
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
With the world economy in turmoil I am wondering what the end result, whenever that may happen, will be? Supposedly there are safeguards in place that would prevent another depression. I am skeptical of any safeguard considering our current condition. Will prices, overall cost of living that is, go up or down? My thinking, muddled as it is, is that overall the rate of inflation world wide was racing out of control at such a fast rate that one of the results of this financial collapse will be a slow down. Will this in turn cause prices to start to return to normal, or will we see the opposite?
David – who is weathering this economic storm, but getting battered severely from the debris.
Originally written by D. T. on October 8, 2008 3:16 PM
... Will this in turn cause prices to start to return to normal, or will we see the opposite?
In the newspapers, I read that prices are on their way down though it may, naturally, take a while before the stores are willing to lower their profit.
For the last year, the price of milk, eggs, bread and butter have skyrocketed here in Denmark. It started with a bad wheat harvest and, at first slowly, then so fast that we could barely keep abreast of the price-hikes. Stores that used to be discount were suddenly as or even more expensive than the regular ones and food shopping became a 'do I need this - and I can I do without that? ' kind of thing. When a loaf of whole wheat bread is DKK 26.00, a bag of organic carrots DKK 18.00 and a litre of whole milk is DKK 8.95, and SIX eggs costs a whopping DKK 24.00...can the price of food go anywhere but down?
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
I think our world view just took another nose dive. I had planned on some travels in 2009, but certainly don’t want to be seen as a representative American that caused all of this mess.
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The world economy will slow sharply this year and next, with the United States likely sliding into recession reflecting mounting damage from the most dangerous financial jolt in more than a half-century.
The International Monetary Fund, in a World Economic Outlook released Wednesday, slashed growth projections for the global economy and predicted the United States — the epicenter of the financial meltdown — will continue to lose traction.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on August 5, 2008 3:20 PM
Record earnings for Exxon, the world’s largest publicly traded oil company, have become routine as the surge of oil prices in recent years has filled its coffers. The company’s income for the second quarter rose 14 percent, to $11.68 billion, compared to the same period a year ago. That beat the previous record of $11.66 billion set by Exxon in the last three months of 2007: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/business/01oil.html
Originally written by John Bunch on August 12, 2008 6:28 AM Cool. I have Exxon in my 401k.
I wish more translators had known how to shelter their 401(k)s...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
When I look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_crisis_impact_timelineand specifically the beginning of 2007 when the "U.S. Treasury secretary calls the bursting housing bubble "the most significant risk to our economy"" I cannot help bringing up the following review:
Sunday, April 8, 2007
CONSUMED
How Markets Corrupt Children, Infantilize Adults, and Swallow Citizens Whole
By Benjamin R. Barber
Norton. 406 pp. $26.95
[snip] Immediately after 9/11, President Bush addressed the nation. Here was a chance to bring a grieving people together -- to articulate shared purposes and ask for shared sacrifice. Instead, all the president asked of us is that we keep doing what Americans do . . . and shop. Not exactly Churchillian, but if Benjamin Barber is right, Bush was just tapping into the spirit of our times. In Consumed, Barber argues that shopping is pretty much the only common purpose Americans have left. For two generations, consumerism and citizenship have been battling it out for America's soul. And consumerism has won. ...
In a never-ending effort to make consumption the centerpiece of every American's existence, marketers have succeeded in infantilizing adults ("kidults," Barber calls us). We're increasingly governed by impulse. No wonder consumer debt and personal bankruptcy have never been higher. Feeling dominates thinking, me dominates us, now dominates later, egoism dominates altruism, entitlement dominates responsibility, individualism dominates community, and private dominates public. Imagine having the ship of state guided by leaders elected by a nation of 12-year-olds. That, according to Barber, is what we've got. ...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
The US government's debts have ballooned so badly the National Debt Clock in New York has run out of digits to record the spiralling figure: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7660409.stm
You may not even remember from grade-school arithmetic what comes after trillion. It isn't kajillion. (That's just a whimsical slang term for "unimaginably high number.") It's quadrillion. The phrase "quadrillion dollars" and the word losses appeared together in only two English-language news reports between July and October 2008, so no need to panic just yet. During the same three-month periods in 2007 and 2006, they appeared in one. http://www.slate.com/id/2201961/
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
For more than a decade, the former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has fiercely objected whenever derivatives have come under scrutiny in Congress or on Wall Street. ... And his views held the greatest sway in debates about the regulation and use of derivatives — exotic contracts that promised to protect investors from losses, thereby stimulating riskier practices that led to the financial crisis. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/business/economy/09greenspan.html?scp=1&sq=greenspan%20derivatives&st=cse
I see a potential for explosion when you put together the above with the following:
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 9, 2008 2:33 PM CONSUMED
How Markets Corrupt Children, Infantilize Adults, and Swallow Citizens Whole By Benjamin R. Barber
[snip] In a never-ending effort to make consumption the centerpiece of every American's existence, marketers have succeeded in infantilizing adults ("kidults," Barber calls us). We're increasingly governed by impulse. No wonder consumer debt and personal bankruptcy have never been higher. Feeling dominates thinking, me dominates us, now dominates later, egoism dominates altruism, entitlement dominates responsibility, individualism dominates community, and private dominates public. Imagine having the ship of state guided by leaders elected by a nation of 12-year-olds. That, according to Barber, is what we've got. ...
Our current situation is being widely compared to the Great Depression, but Alan Wolfe, a professor of political science at Boston College and New Republic contributing editor, says it's not likely to have the same effect on our political culture:
Too much about the United States has changed over the past few decades for history to come anywhere close to repeating itself. The most important of those changes is that the anger that greeted the Great Depression is of very different quality than the anger apparent now. Seemingly like the 1930s, Americans are denouncing Wall Street. But their hostility is too diffuse and incoherent to help them channel it constructively. The past eight years have seen the enactment of public policies that time after time rewarded lobbyists, increased the wealth and power of the already best off, and redistributed income away from ordinary Americans. Yet by and large Americans accepted all this without protest. Now, all of a sudden, they are speaking like Populists of old, attacking greed and calling for regulation. Their protest, alas, is more symbolic than concrete. As such, we are unlikely to witness blame assigned where it belongs; nor are we apt to see the passage of serious reforms dealing with long-term structural changes in the economy or any diminution of lobbyist influence.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
I wonder what exactly it means, for practical purposes, when a bank replies that they would like to settle their accounts with a service provider in SDRs... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights)
[UK] Undertakers hit by the credit crunch are refusing to carry out funerals until the Department for Work and Pensions has confirmed it will foot the bill.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin issued a call on Tuesday for regulation of the "over the counter" derivatives market, which has an estimated size of about $596 trillion. By contrast, the value of the world's financial assets—including all stock, bonds, and bank deposits—was pegged at $167 trillion last year by McKinsey. How can the derivatives market be larger than the entire world's financial wealth? http://www.slate.com/id/2202263/
When the financial crisis was just beginning to appear, I did one of the smartest things I’ve ever done: I asked my colleagues ... What they said was so enlightening that I begged them to write it up for the blog, which they did. ...
Enough important events have occurred since their original post that we asked them whether they couldn’t bring us up to speed on where the financial crisis stands today, what the government is doing and why, and the long-term prospects for the economy. ...
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Long live Karl Marx (on this site, at least !, if not in the real world).
I am also very sure that all of you who get on here and post about how terrible capitalism is, have already sold all of your stocks and bonds and totally divested yourselves from the "capitalist", exploitative free market, with its 401k plans, I-pods, BMWs, and other products. Or do you only talk the talk, without "walking the walk" ?
Mother tongue: German Posts: 843 Joined: December 31, 2002 Location: Mexico
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 17, 2008 7:50 AM
Long live Karl Marx (on this site, at least !, if not in the real world).
I am also very sure that all of you who get on here and post about how terrible capitalism is, have already sold all of your stocks and bonds and totally divested yourselves from the "capitalist", exploitative free market, with its 401k plans, I-pods, BMWs, and other products. Or do you only talk the talk, without "walking the walk" ?
I think that Marx was great in humanism, but nil economy. One day I read an excerpt from the Kapital, and I thought he could never have written this if he would ever had gained hands-on experience as a sales rep! On the other hand it is clear since Marx' time, that the criminal law is not sufficient to handle capitalism, since the monetary system and ethics are drifting more and more apart. "Walking the walk", I abandoned stock market long ago and am only interested in Forex, because the currencies cannot drop all at once.
Originally written by John Bunch on October 17, 2008 7:50 AM Long live Karl Marx (on this site, at least !, if not in the real world).
I will never sell the bust of Karl Marx that sits atop my baby grand. In fact, I am so afraid that someone will steal it (the bust), that right now it's hidden in the trunk of my new BMW.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
John is right, as the recent nationalizations in the G.O.P. United States show, Karl Marx will never go bust...
* * *
Paul Krugman
So the election will be a referendum on conservative economic policies after all. And while nothing in politics is certain, the odds are that this referendum will indeed produce a big victory for Obama and his party. What they'll do with that victory is another question, but for now, at least, the prospects for a new New Deal are looking bright again. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22017
Sorry, John, that you have to live in such a country!
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Let me just add a few thoughts:
- One of the things that caused this crisis worldwide was the actions of the various central banks (U.S. Fed, etc.). Interest rates were kept too low for too long, leading from one bubble (stocks), to another bubble (housing). One reason that they did this was to provide what Greenspan called a "soft landing" to the world economy. If Americans stopped using their homes as ATM machines, they would also stop buying BMWs and Lexuses and French cheese and Chinese goods (basically everything else made on earth). And that would be bad - they thought - for everyone. But let's please remember, a centrally-set interest rate is not an example of the "free market failing". Central planning is the exact oppositie of a free market, which consists of billions of people making individual decisions. Thus, I do not see this crisis as a "failure of the market".
- One of the things that led to the crisis was the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, which forces U.S. banks to lend money to people (sub-prime mortgages) with bad credit. And the U.S. Justice Department enforces it. Do you know that if banks even questioned the lending of a client under this act, they get a letter from the Justice Dept. stating that it is "discriminatory" to look into the credit of the people they are lending money to ? Again, another example of how the government distorted the market. This resulted in lots of bad "sub-prime" mortgages out there, and those were repackaged and "securitized" and resold. But now we are finding out that lots of those things are bad and no one knows what they are worth, because housing is now collapsing and the housing bubble burst. Again, not an example of market failure, but rather, an example of government action leading to bad debt and "poisoning" the market. You cannot blame the free market for ACORN putting a gun to the heads of the banks and then - backed up by the U.S. government - forcing the banks to lend to people who probably could never repay the loans in the first place. That is socialism, not the free market.
- "Greed": a totally insufficient argument. If greed were the issue, why didn't the economy crash in 1996 ? Are bankers and businesspeople today more "greedy" than back then ? Greed is a totally unuseful way to look at this. The price you get from something is not based on your greed, but on what people are willing to pay you for it, and that is determined mostly by supply and demand.
- Let's not forget that financial markets are also inherently unstable. As the "Economist" magazine points out, financial ups and downs and crashes have existed long before Wall Street or even the U.S. It is an illusion to think that financial markets must be "stable", because they inherently are not.
- The REAL danger to the U.S. economy is now overregulation. As the "Economist" points out, and others as well, the competitors of the U.S. for financial location (Dubai, Ireland, Switzerland, Singapore, etc.) are actually hoping that the U.S. will now "crack down on greed", because that would drive capital from the U.S. and to them. Thus, the worst thing the U.S. could do now is overregulate finance. We already have the highest corporate taxes (or near the top) in the world. 40 % of Americans pay zero taxes, and the top 1% of Americans (who, by the way, are mostly small business owners who hire most workers and drive our economy, not the "fat cats" of the leftist mind) pay 40 % of all taxes. Just as the post-Enron overregulation in the form of "Sarbanes-Oxley" led to London replacing New York as the main hub for finance, new regulation would not doubt do the same, driving capital away. Not to mention that the people doing the regulating are always "behind the curve" and they also tend to be less knowledgeable and smart than the people they are attempting to regulate.
If we now turn to "socialism" and overregulation, the following things will happen:
a. Fewer jobs will be created
b. Capital will flow from the U.S. to Dubai, Switzerland, and Singapore
c. The recession will be even deeper and more prolonged
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 18, 2008 1:13 AM
- One of the things that led to the crisis was the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, which forces U.S. banks to lend money to people (sub-prime mortgages) with bad credit. And the U.S. Justice Department enforces it. Do you know that if banks even questioned the lending of a client under this act, they get a letter from the Justice Dept. stating that it is "discriminatory" to look into the credit of the people they are lending money to ? Again, another example of how the government distorted the market. This resulted in lots of bad "sub-prime" mortgages out there, and those were repackaged and "securitized" and resold. But now we are finding out that lots of those things are bad and no one knows what they are worth, because housing is now collapsing and the housing bubble burst.
Idealism vs popularism, and government's role to provide low-cost housing repackaged so as not to look out of place in a capitalist economy and given the torrid spellings s-u-b-p-r-i-m-e?
Originally written by John Bunch on October 18, 2008 1:13 AM
- "Greed": a totally insufficient argument. If greed were the issue, why didn't the economy crash in 1996 ?
It did crash by proxy in 1997 in Asia starting with South Korea, as the low-interest US dollar financed growth in Asia and when companies started to borrow US dollars instead of from high-interest domestic debt markets, the spiral can easily got out of hand. Companies were also known to borrow US dollars to park in high-interest domestic savings. When repayment comes, it was called the Asian financial crisis and the origin can be traced to USA, although it can't be denied that a lot of regulatory matters lacked behind financial progress and liberalism, just as a lot of pollution laws lacked behind industrialization.
Originally written by John Bunch on October 18, 2008 1:13 AM
- The REAL danger to the U.S. economy is now overregulation. As the "Economist" points out, and others as well, the competitors of the U.S. for financial location (Dubai, Ireland, Switzerland, Singapore, etc.)
Singapore already overtook Tokyo in the forex market. Following in the footsteps of Ireland(amond the first to do so) and many other countries in recent days, Singapore also started to guarantee domestic bank deposits. I don't see it happening as the markets there seem to be well regulated and the interest rates are almost at rock bottom, but if it happens, . . . send the bill to the taxpayers? (Total deposits in Singapore currently exceeds US$500 billion, but the size of sovereign reserves is probably less than a quarter of that.)
Gee, I think it would also take the heat off the Chinese yuan!
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
The reality is that financial markets are dynamic and unstable by nature. Even back in Roman Times, there were runs on banks and instability.
The main reason the world is in the mess it is in, in my view is due mostly to low interest rates. To an extent, that is also the U.S.'s fault. The world economy is also unbalanced, because for instance, in my view, other nations have not developed enough "entrepreneurial capitalism" that would then spur domestic demand. I am talking about Japan and many Asian countries. Also, many Asian countries continue to have protectionist barriers to imports. This makes world trade lopsided, and also means that the Japanese and Chinese are "export motors", while not importing enough. The Chinese, in order to compete, keep their currency, the Remnimby, artificially low. This also distorts trade.
In order to take up the slack from this imbalance, the U.S. kept its interest rates low, and created the housing bubble. American tax law allows Americans to write off their mortgages in taxes, and this also lead Americans to use their homes as finance vehicles and then as speculatory devices. Americans overconsume and undersave (the opposite of what most Asians do). One reason is to "soak up" the Asian exports.
But now the "chickens have come home to roost", so to speak...
There are a number of myths floating around. Here are some of them:
a. "The crisis was born on Wall Street". No, as I mentioned, financial crises are worldwide, and finance is by its nature unstable.
b. "It was due to deregulation under Reagan and Bush". Obama makes this statement, but also has not named a specific instance of how Bush deregulated the financial markets since he was president. When pressed, he cannot name anything.
c. "It was a failure of the market, and government is the answer". Yes and no. The market failed in the sense that financial markets are unstable by nature. The government failed by keeping interest rates too low, by backing and underwriting bad assets (through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac), and through its ratings agencies, not rating risk well. Also, as mentioned, the "Community Reinvestment Act" resulted in the private banks being forced to make bad loans, which later were "repackaged" and have now poisoned the entire system. Hardly an example of how government has "helped". (see also how Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines made $ 90 million, while Fannie Mae was going under and poisoning the entire system, and how Raines got a pass from Democrats in Congress like Barney Frank. The lack of oversight of these agencies is appauling, and the Democrats mostly must answer for that). Fannie Mae created "government subsidies for leverage in real estate", as the Wall Street Journal has put it.
If "more government is the answer", I would just like to point out that the Democrats have been in control of Congress and the Senate the past couple of years. What did they do to help this situation ? What hearings did they hold ? When called before Barney Frank's committee, Freddie Mac CEO Franklin Raines got a pass from Frank. So I also don't understand it when the Democrats are now trying to lay all the blame on Bush and "deregulation" and "greed". Was Raines (a Democrat CEO of a private/public company "greedy" when he took that $ 90 million ?). (BTW, a lot of politicians, including Obama, have taken "donations" from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Conflict of interest, anyone ?).
Also, the rules for assessing banking risk, such as the "Basel Rules" have to be changed. The Basel Rules are international rules, by the way, and contributed to the crisis. So the notion that we "need more international coordination and control", is also not really accurate. We need better control and better regulation, but not necessarily more.
d. "We now need more regulation": We now need some new rules on bank capitalization, but what we really need is transparency, not the "heavey hand of government". A "crackdown" would just drive capital to places like Dubai and Sinpapore. We need to hold banks to better capitalization ratios, but mostly, we need transparency. Government regulation is almost always "behind the curve", and as the "Economist" magazine has pointed out, the regulators are almost always less knowledgeable and smart than the people who they are regulating, so it doesn't work.
One final point: When the Japanese economy "hit the wall" in 1990, the bad assets on its bank books was about 22 %. Currently, Chinese banks hold anywhere from 45 % to 65 % of bad assets on their books. Very few people are talking about this. It is a major, major issue, and the Chinese economy is going to crash. I find it incredible that so few people are discussing this. The Chinese economy is far more weak than people realize, and it has created "the next bubble", which, when it bursts, will cause another crisis.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Specifically, when Fannie Mae (which is a "publicly-owned company with government oversight", and that underwrites the most mortgages in the U.S., and is responsible for $ 4.5 trillion in mortgages (source: NY Times), CEO Franklin Raines was called before Democrat Barney Frank's Congressional committe, the following exchange took place between the two Harvard-educated public servants:
Frank: "Mr. Raines, do you believe that Fannie Mae has been under-regulated ?"
Raines: "Sir, I do not".
Frank: "Then I don't know why we are here".
He then closed the meeting.
(Note: Raines made $ 90 million recently and Fannie Mae has donated to the Democratic Party (as well as the GOP). It is now alleged by some that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in essence buying their way out of oversight !!) The question is now: who will regulate the regulators !?.
The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that a top SEC (U.S. Securities and Exchange) official in Miami dropped a Bear Stearns investigation, because he allegedly had had an affair with one of the top Bear Stearns attorneys. (it is the job of the SEC to ensure that financial crises like the one we are now in do not occur).
So much for government being the "answer" to this "crisis of capitalism"...
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 17, 2008 6:13 PM
...
- "Greed": a totally insufficient argument. If greed were the issue, why didn't the economy crash in 1996 ? Are bankers and businesspeople today more "greedy" than back then ? Greed is a totally unuseful way to look at this. The price you get from something is not based on your greed, but on what people are willing to pay you for it, and that is determined mostly by supply and demand.
...
Greed is in my point if view the central issue. We may put it in other words and say: when ethics disappear totally in a given economy, it collapses.
Greed was not as strong in 1996 as it is today. We can see it in micro and in macro.
Micro: giant companies and trusts destroyed completely the small commerce in the whole planet. There are supermarkets (and as if it's not enough they invented hypermarkets, if there was a major superlative in grammar, marketing managers would have used it) instead of the small shops that exist among each community. By small shops, we intend the guy who sells milk and derivatives, the one who sells fruits and vegetables, the woman who sells bread and pastries, the hairdresser for men and ethe hairdresser for women, the librarian... All these cratfs are in the American system, today internationalized substituted with horribly designed hypermarkets where everything is there but the soul is not there. Check the expression of the face of the cashier or the mood of the shoppers...
Let us go even more micro with an example taken from reality. Carrefour supermarkets came in Tunisia a couple of years ago, and in each town where they open a supermarket, the shops disappear some months later. What does C. brings to me as Tunisian. They're selling the same bread I used top buy from the bakery and the same other products I used to buy from 100s of other persons. You may tell me, this is an example that doesn't interest yo, too "localized". Well, then I invite you to have a look at the American Film: "BARBERSHOP". Not important that it happens in an area of Chicago when blacks live. Keep the same scenario and choose any country in the world, just change the actors, and you depict a true reality.
But since Carrefour has to make everrising benefits to satisfy the shareholders, otherwise the CEO is fired, it has to implement a savage policy where there is no place for other considerations (social, ethic..) than benefits, benefits. Isn't that Greed?
Macro: Ok, if it is greed, then, the same paradigm applies to the major other moneymaking machines they call international companies, trusts, multinationals ecc. It is a system that they teach in universities and high schools: how to sell more and more, how to satisfy at any cost shareholders. The good laureates of those schools came out one day with an excellent idea: to sell houses to anyone, anyone. So the system prepared first of all a federal law. The law says that it is discriminatory to ask guarantees from people wanting to buy houses. You have a group of houses and you want to sell it, don't ask the buyers how will they be able to pay. What's the most important then? It is the sales contract you bring back to the company. Why? Because the company will sell those contracts in the open market. Thye call it: selling credits. We, as Muslims call it: selling what you don't own. In our ethics, it is a capital sin. Totally forbidden.
Then one day people could not pay their houses, they found themselves in the streets. banks did not cash they found themselves bankrupt. 100 small bankrupt banks means bankrupt of big banks, at least those working in the real estate business.
Macro 2: In the reality of numbers, today the United States of America is among the poorest countries of the world. It has been living with credits (money) taken from all the other nations, through using its money as international currecy. How? Very simple: when the boxes are empty, orders are given to print green papers (dollars). Today the US has around 70% public debt.
It may be OK if it's a small country in the Antiguas or Africa or even in Europe (Island), but it's not OK for a country that is running with heavy foots everywhere in the world, occupying other people countries, and defending blindly barbarian entities such as Israel.
Conclusion: After World War II, and its brave behaviour in supporting Europe, saving the Jews and helping rebuildiing European Economy, US has been living and spending with that CREDIT (moral and financial). After the invasion of Iraq and after invading a country on a false pretense (ask Colin Powell) the US lost its pride, its honor and its image. It started now a new era where there's no space for much words except an advice from some friends as: Yankees, stay home, stay quiet and work hard and please don't bother the others. They are as humane, as full of dignity, as proud (as whatever you want) as you are.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
"A focus on terrorism and intelligence has limited the F.B.I.’s ability to pursue criminal wrongdoing related to the economic crisis," writes http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/washington/19fbi.html?hp. Maybe that's why figures such as Tony Rezko or Bill Ayers rather than greed at large are given more prominence at this juncture.
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 19, 2008 12:27 AM
One final point: When the Japanese economy "hit the wall" in 1990, the bad assets on its bank books was about 22 %. Currently, Chinese banks hold anywhere from 45 % to 65 % of bad assets on their books. Very few people are talking about this. It is a major, major issue, and the Chinese economy is going to crash. I find it incredible that so few people are discussing this. The Chinese economy is far more weak than people realize, and it has created "the next bubble", which, when it bursts, will cause another crisis.
Interesting, but how did you arrive at the figure of 45% to 65%? From those in the 90s before restructuring and recapitalization?
It seems the current new reports mention something like under 10%.
I think it is still too early to retract the statement: (Post #147410)
RE: China sinks mighty US
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on June 3, 2008 6:42 PM
Thank God our top brains have invented hedge funds that can effectively hedge us against all those risks through public bailouts...
"Don't ya worry any tiny bit. We're simply far too big for them governments to allow us to fail. Let em taxpayers pay up their bloody nose, and we'd have our free ride either way."
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Stephen Bensinger's severance payment...
The free market, or entrepreneurial capitalism is the worst system, except for all the other systems. As the "Economist" magazine pointed out this week, no system has ever risen people - including the world's most destitute - so fast from poverty and given them a decent life. Of course, for people who live in the West and took sociology in college, it is hard to understand this and support it, because in most intellectual circles, it is far cooler to be socialist and lambast "capitalism" and read books by Naomi Wolf and Noam Chomsky. But for the poor of Asia, no system has ever been as successful as the free market in freeing 1 billion people from poverty. That is a historical fact. Of course, capitalism does produce results we don't like. But the negative results are far better and less bad than those produced by central planning and socialism.
I lived in Germany for 8 years, and although Germany is a successful country that is mostly capitalist, it has very strong socialist elements. I paid 47 % in gross earnings to the state as a very normal, middle class worker, and I recall paying about 18 % of gross pay for my "free universal health care". I recall the "protected" workers slamming their shop gates on my face at 3:50 PM on a Saturday, and having to pay triple for medicines what I pay in the U.S., in order to "protect" the German pharma industry. When we forget the rhetoric about socialism and how "human" it is, the end result is those kinds of things. Socialism produces all kinds of weird investment distortions. For instance, in Germany, the state invests tax money to prop up the coal industry. They pay about euros 100,000 of subsidies per coal miner, for an industry that is dirty and work that is dirty and no fun at all (I think). And at the same time, the German universities are underfunded. It makes no sense.
Originally written by John Bunch on October 19, 2008 6:27 PM ... Of course, capitalism does produce results we don't like. But the negative results are far better and less bad than those produced by central planning and socialism.
...Germany is a successful country that is mostly capitalist, it has very strong socialist elements. ...
This is also true of Denmark. I lived in the States for more than half my life (so far), and while I love the country, I have to say that my first impressions were that poverty was rampant. I was aghast the first time I saw one person after another literally stepping over a homeless man sleeping on a hot-air grate in N.Y.C. I can remember just standing there non-comprehending. This was back in 1970, but the general sense is still that poverty is everywhere.
The socialist elements in Denmark can feel stifling indeed, but a medical procedure costing approx. $ 100,000. - is also likely to stifle your style, whereas in Denmark it is "free" and available, and so is secondary education.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Stephen Bensinger's severance payment...
Originally written by John Bunch on October 19, 2008 6:27 PM in most intellectual circles, it is far cooler to be socialist and lambast "capitalism" and read books by Naomi Wolf and Noam Chomsky
...and Paul Krugman, especially after his Nobel Prize in Economics, e.g.:
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Stephen Bensinger's severance payment...
Nanna, I lived in Heidelberg, Germany for 4 years and I saw, almost every day, people walking by collapsed homeless people. And that is in a small German city. Are you telling me that you have no homeless people in Copenhagen ? The homeless are sad and they deserve our help, but let's not pretend that this problem only exists in the U.S., please. I have seen it in the most posh European cities with the best welfare systems in the world. I was personally "shocked" to see heroin addicts shooting up 3 blocks from the main train station in Frankfurt, Germany (and that in broad daylight, and no one did anything).
Originally written by John Bunch on October 19, 2008 11:24 PM
BTW, New York has changed "a bit" since 1970 (!).
Thirty-eight years ago! Sure it has - many more homeless and dispossessed around. When last I was there in 1999, I walked through Grand Central Station without "seeing" the homeless, and I do the same when I come and go from Copenhagen Central Station. I too changed! I no longer give directly, I have found other ways to help.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: The homeless..
I read an interesting article about New York, which stated that what really cleaned the city up was not Giuliani, but the fact that the Port Authority transferred thousands of port jobs south to New Jersey. The end result was that NY went from being a grimy port city, to being a finance city and arts city. Of course, Giuliani claims credit for "cleaning up the city", but I think now that it really was this one decision by the Port Authority. [on the other hand, given the financial crisis, maybe leaving NY as a grimy port town would have been better for everyone !].
Regarding homelessness,
One of the more hopeful things I have seen in my life was an obviously schizophrenic street person who I used to see in Germany. He used to be in pretty bad shape. The last time I was back in Germany, I saw the same man, and he looked much, much better and had cleaned himself up a lot. He was standing on the street, selling a homeless newspaper, and making some money for himself that way. That is something that they have done in Germany which is very positive. I felt really good when I saw him looking so much better.
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
There are 50 millions people in the Unites States of America who have no health insurance. It means they can die in the streets. We all die at the end, but the problems of these 50 millions are the sufferings on the way to death...
50 millions out of 300 millions is more than 15%.
In my "emerging country" Tunisia, we are around 10 millions. It would mean 1.500.000 Tunisians with no health insurance.
How many people have no health insurance in Tunisia? 0%.
How much you pay as health insurance when you first send your kid to school in Tunisia, including school fees? 1 Dinar per year (less than one dollar).
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: New York
Originally written by John Bunch on October 20, 2008 2:27 AM what really cleaned the city up was not Giuliani, but the fact that the Port Authority transferred thousands of port jobs south to New Jersey
There was also another factor concerning the crime. As Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner write in Freakonomics (pp. 129-130), Giuliani's "broken window" approach to fighting crime "probably had little effect" -- he got credit for a drop in crime that began before he took office and happened all across the country:
First, the drop in crime in New York began in 1990. By the end of 1993, the rate of property crime and violent crime, including homicides, had already fallen nearly 20 percent. Rudolph Giuliani, however, did not become mayor -- and install [police commissioner William] Bratton -- until early 1994. Crime was well on its way down before either man arrived...
Second, the new police strategies were accompanied by a much more significant change within the police force: a hiring binge. Between 1991 and 2001, the NYPD grew by 45 percent, more than three times the national average. As argued above an increase in the number of police, regardless of new strategies, has been proven to reduce crime... Many of these new police were in fact hired by David Dinkins, the mayor whom Giuliani defeated. Dinkins had been desperate to secure the law-and-order vote, having known all along that his opponent would be Giuliani, a former federal prosecutor...
Most damaging to the claim that New York's police innovations radically lowered crime is one simple and often overlooked fact: crime went down everywhere in the 1990s, not only in New York. http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2006/07/the_myth_of_giu.html
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: New York
I recall going to a meeting put on by a police commissioner in Germany in about 1997. He had gone to New York, in order to study how New York had cleaned up the city, so that perhaps Germany could also do "zero tolerance" policing. One thing he heard from the police officers was the following: "Yes, we cleared out Manhattan. But we did not get rid of crime. We merely moved it. The really bad thing was, the same criminals we had cleared out of Manhattan, were now in OUR neighborhoods, dealing drugs and doing crime" (i.e. the criminals had merely been moved from one place to another, from downtown New York to the suburbs). The police found that very frustrating.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: New York
Regarding health care in the U.S., federal law requires all emergency rooms to care for anyone admitted, regardless of their immigration status or ability to pay. The notion that "Americans can die in the streets" due to lack of health care is an absurd notion, to put it mildly. Yes, there are 40 million people without health insurance, but many of them are eligible for medicare (the U.S. version of "free universal health care" in Europe or Canada), but they have not applied for it. The others are recent illegal immigrants from Mexico.
The World Health Organization calculates that there are 5,000 people who die every year of cancer in Britain, who would have lived, had they been in the U.S.
So much for the horrible U.S. health care system...
BTW, according to the World Health Organization, child mortality rates, per 1,000 (2003):
- USA = 8
- Tunisia = 24
This leads me to believe that the claim that Tunisian health care is better might be a slight exaggeration...
The U.S. leads the world in cancer survivability rates for both men and women (66 % for men, 62 % for women). In all other countries on earth, cancer survivability is lower.
Originally written by John Bunch on October 20, 2008 8:38 AM Regarding health care in the U.S., federal law requires all emergency rooms to care for anyone admitted, regardless of their ... or ability to pay. The notion that "Americans can die in the streets" due to lack of health care is an absurd notion, to put it mildly.
People don't, generally, stagger from the hospital to the street where they fall over and die. They die at home away from the doctors and the hospitals - they die from infections caused by lowered immune systems due to untreated illnesses or they die from metastasis, i.e., cancer secondaries.
Yes, there are 40 million people without health insurance, but many of them are eligible for medicare (the U.S. version of "free universal health care" in Europe or Canada), but they have not applied for it. ...
The "free" healthcare in Denmark is nothing like U.S. Medicare where you have to take what you can get and a second opinion isn't available. In DK, you can get any number of "second" opinions. You can change doctor and choose specialists and also private hospital care if the waiting list is longer than the government decreed xyz weeks (depending on illness and seriousness).
The World Health Organization calculates that there are 5,000 people who die every year of cancer in Britain, who would have lived, had they been in the U.S.
Yes! To name just one, the available breast cancer care is much better in the U.S. than it is in Denmark. Cancer research is so advanced in the States. The difference is that in the U.S. it is not available unless you have health insurance and can pay the exorbitant co-payments involving cancer surgery, chemotherapy and aftercare.
The U.S. leads the world in cancer survivability rates for both men and women ...
True! If you have good health insurance and can afford the treatment and the co-payments. If not...you may as well drop dead in the street. Sorry!
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 17, 2008 7:50 AM Long live Karl Marx (on this site, at least !, if not in the real world).
I am also very sure that all of you who get on here and post about how terrible capitalism is, have already sold all of your stocks and bonds and totally divested yourselves from the "capitalist", exploitative free market, with its 401k plans, I-pods, BMWs, and other products. Or do you only talk the talk, without "walking the walk" ?
Digging up last millennium concepts only adds to the terminological and ideological confusion in the 21st c. For example,
[self-described leftist, philosopher and journalist] Bernard-Henri Lévy's latest literary publicity blitz coincides with the publication of his newest book, "Left in Dark Times: A Stand Against the New Barbarism." When Levy wrote "Barbarism With a Human Face" 31 years ago, his sworn enemy -- the barbarism he spoke of -- was Marxism. ...
SALON: The subtitle of your new book is "A Stand Against the New Barbarism." Can you explain what you mean by that?
Levi: What I mean by the new barbarism is great ideas having bad effects. Great ideals turning out to be the stem cell of big crimes, big injustices, unfairnesses, brutality and so on. The barbarism 30 years ago when I wrote "Barbarism With a Human Face" was Marxism, which pretended to be a fight in favor of justice, social equality, freedom, eradication of slavery, and which was exactly the contrary. And you have today a new barbarism in the case of these women and men who pretend to fight in favor of tolerance, in favor of anti-imperialism, in favor of anti-colonialism, and actually plead for slavery of the women, massive violation of human rights. Or when they don't plead for that, they tolerate them, refuse to denounce them.
You have a new mechanism today ... for example, where in the name of anti-Americanism the crimes in Darfur are not denounced. The crimes in Bosnia were accepted. And so many wars in Africa or elsewhere are just forgotten. ...
SALON: Why Obama should be chosen, in my opinion: No. 1, because it would mean really the end -- and the complete victory of the battle begun in the '60s. No. 2, because it will mean the end of a new American evil, which is the dividing, the Balkanization of American society. This is another counter-effect of a great idea, which was tolerance. You so much tolerate that you tolerate the American society to be in separate bubbles having their own peculiarities, and so on. Obama as president will mean all these bubbles submitted to a real ideal of citizenship. This is his message. McCain will not be able to do this. If McCain is elected, I can tell you the Iranians will close themselves in the Iranian identity. The Arabs will coldly, freezingly imprison themselves in the Muslim identity. The African-Americans will believe that the American society is more and more built against them. You will have an increase of the Balkanization.
LEVI: And No. 3, you have another ideal in the America of today, which I call the competition of victims. Competition of memories. If you are in favor of the Jews, you cannot be in favor of the blacks. If you remember the suffering of slavery, you cannot remember too much the suffering of the Holocaust, and so on and so on. The human heart has not space enough for all the sufferings. This is what some people say. Obama says the contrary. It will mean the end of this stupid topic, which is competition of victimhood. ... http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/10/20/bhl/
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Nanna, When I lived in Germany, a friend of mine had an ear infection. He went to the doctor, who told him that the budget was up for that month, and that the Dr. could not prescribe anything as a result. He actually told my friend to do the following: go to a store and buy an onion. Cut it up, and pour the onion juice into his ear (!).
That is an example of how the European countries deal with the issue of over-demand and not enough supply due to the "free" health care system (one result of "free" care is people overusing the service. So the hypochondriacs get the medicine, but then the person with the real sickness doesn't get treatment. In a system of cost transparency in which the patient is really carrying the costs of his own or her own care, that problem would not exist).
BTW, when Americans were asked if they want universal health care, they say yes. But when the next question is, "are you willing to pay more for it in taxes", they say "no".
Europeans pay up to 20 % of their gross income tax for their "free" health care (and for that money, they sometimes get the kind of "care" described above). 85 % of Americans say they are currently satisfied with their health care.
Of the "uninsured" in the U.S.:
- 10 million are not U.S. citizens - 14 million are eligible for insurance (medicare, which is our version of free public insurance), but they have just not enrolled
- The U.S. government already controls 50 % of health care spending in the U.S., so you could say that our system is already half socialist.
- In the United Kingdom, there are currently 1 million people on waiting lists to see a doctor and get their "free" care.
- Many Europeans and Canadians leave (to go to the U.S.) to get the health care they need.
- "Free" health care often pushes the costs to the next generation of taxpayers.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Stephen Bensinger's severance payment...
Originally written by John Bunch on October 19, 2008 6:27 PM Of course, capitalism does produce results we don't like. But the negative results are far better and less bad than those produced by central planning and socialism.
And, as usual, there is nothing between the white capitalism of the excesses we were discussing and the black real socialism we have known.
The chief executive of Lloyds TSB, one of the banks participating in the £37bn bank bail-out, has promised staff they will receive bonuses this year despite Gordon Brown's promise of a crackdown on bankers' pay following the investment by taxpayers.
Originally written by John Bunch on October 20, 2008 6:08 PM Nanna, When I lived in Germany, a friend of mine had an ear infection. He went to the doctor, who told him that the budget was up for that month, and that the Dr. could not prescribe anything as a result. He actually told my friend to do the following: go to a store and buy an onion. Cut it up, and pour the onion juice into his ear (!).
That is an example of how the European countries deal with the issue of over-demand and not enough supply due to the "free" health care system (one result of "free" care is people overusing the service.
John,
This is not an example of anything other than the state of health care in Germany at the time when you lived there.
With all due respect, I have never heard of anything even approaching such a ludicrous notion: Closing up shop because the budget is up for the month! Not in Denmark and not in any part of Scandinavia. In fact, I have never heard of such a practice anywhere in Europe. I read several Danish and English newspapers every day.
However, I have heard of U.S. doctors refusing to take patients without health insurance. Haven't you?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 21, 2008 10:18 AM
He went to the doctor, who told him that the budget was up for that month ...
In Poland, the budget can be up for the year for expensive procedures, so if you sign up for one late in the year, they may tell you that your waiting for the procedure will not start until January. The alternative to cough up is always there, though...
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 21, 2008 11:17 AM
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 21, 2008 10:18 AM
"He went to the doctor, who told him that the budget was up for that month ..."
In Poland, the budget can be up for the year for expensive procedures, so if you sign up for one late in the year, they may tell you that your waiting for the procedure will not start until January.
Ok, yes, we have waiting lists for specialists and surgical procedures, but I can always get my GP to write a new prescription that the pharmacy will fill, no fuss. I can also get an appointment with my GP in just a few days.
Recently, I had an emergency, incidentally also with my ears, and I needed to see a specialist immediately. I would normally have had to wait at least six weeks, but because it was an emergency, I got an appoinment for early the next morning.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 17, 2008 10:11 AM
John is right, as the recent nationalizations in the G.O.P. United States show, Karl Marx will never go bust...
Sorry, John, that you have to live in such a country!
CARACAS (Reuters) - Socialist Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez mocked George W. Bush as a "comrade" on Wednesday, saying the U.S. president was a hard-line leftist for his government's intervention of major private banks in the U.S. financial crisis. ...
"Bush is to the left of me now," Chavez told an audience of international intellectuals debating the benefits of socialism. "Comrade Bush announced he will buy shares in private banks." http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49F0K720081016 (via Harper's Weekly Review)
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Well, I like living here, Jacek. I can go shopping when I want, and customer service in the U.S. is excellent. People are friendly here, and optimistic, overall. Where I live, I see smiling faces and sunny skies, and I choose to live where I do.
And I don't have to pay triple for medicines like I did in Europe, or pay 18 % of my paycheck to enjoy my "free" healthcare. I don't have to pay 45 % in taxes and then encounter closed stores on the weekends, because all the "protected" workers are off on their government-mandated vacations.
Marx might be "back". Hopefully the end result won't be 100 million people murdered to establish a "socialist utopia", this time [I trust that you and I can agree on that one!]
Regarding the bank bailout: The bailout is pragmatic, not ideological. Most free market supporters, myself included, support this type of government action. After all, in a free market, there is a role for government, not as a redistributor, but as a "referee". The U.S. economy already is about 30 % "government controlled", so anyone who says that we are not really doesn't understand.
There is a far cry from saving the banking system, to running the country into the ground, the way that Hugo Chavez has done. Inflation is out of control in Venezuela, and capital is fleeing the country. Violent crime in Venezuela is also out of control. I have noticed that most of the people who support Hugo Chavez, are people who don't have to live there. They usually are people in the West who enjoy a comfortable western, capitalist existence (401k, stocks, bonds, etc.) while proclaiming the joys of socialism from afar...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 21, 2008 8:32 PM
pay 18 % of my paycheck to enjoy my "free" healthcare. I don't have to pay 45 % in taxes and then encounter closed stores on the weekends
In Poland, the approx. 18% is evenly split between the employer and the employee, the maximum income tax rate on the last dollar is going to be lowered from the current 40% to 32% as of January, and the recent battle to keep the stores open on weekends has been won (save for national holidays).
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
From what I have heard, Germany and Switzerland have good systems. In Switzerland, they have universal care mandated, but then 90 + competing insurance companies, which keeps costs down.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
A good explanation of why, despite all of the rhetoric about "A New New Deal", America is very far from going socialist: the money for it just won't be there. As the author astutely mentions, we are entering the age of fiscal restraint, not of socialism and free-wheeling public spending projects (I imagine it is the same reason why the European governments might mouth their promotion of socialism, but when they go to pay for all the "projects", the money just is not there:
The OECD said yesterday that governments were offsetting widening disparities by increasing taxes and boosting welfare spending. ...
It said income inequality had risen significantly since 2000 in Canada, Germany, Norway, the US, Italy and Finland, and fallen in the UK, Mexico, Greece and Australia. ...
According to the latest data, the group said Denmark had the lowest inequality ratings, just in front of Sweden, while Mexico had the highest ratings, followed by Turkey. ...
Across the OECD nations for which data was available, the cumulative increase in inequality was about 7 percent from the mid-1980s to mid-2000s, with most of the rise accounted for in the first decade. The increase was "not one that would justify ... talk about the breakdown of society", said the OECD. ...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 18, 2008 5:27 PM
Also, the rules for assessing banking risk, such as the "Basel Rules" have to be changed.
Yes, Basel I did contribute to the crisis because banks had to keep aside an amount equivalent to a flat 8% of the value of their assets, regardless of the risk of the investment. This encouraged investment in riskier products considering that relatively little capital (8%) had to be set aside against them.
That has already changed under Basel II, introduced at the beginning of this year. Banks now need to keep a lot more - or less - money aside reflecting the risk of the asset invested in.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
I am not really sure that high income equality is such a good thing. If everyone has the same type house, the same type car, and the same income, isn't there a tendency of people to then "free ride" off the others ? And to me, high income equality also has negative consequences like reduced innovation and risktaking. Why get up early and go to a job and risk your money (as a start-up entrepreneur for example), if the end result will be that your neighbor, who gets up late and is lazy, makes the same as you ?
Whenever you have growth in overall wealth, you get income equality, but to me, that is a sign of a healthy economy, not of an unhealthy one.
One reason that countries like Sweden and now Germany and France have seen a "brain drain" of smart, dynamic young entrepreneurs emigrating is due to this exact problem. They (young entrepreneurs and scientists) tend to end up in places like the U.S. and Australia, were risk is more rewarded. I am not saying that quality of life in Denmark is bad. FRom what I have read, the Danes are the happiest people on earth, and I am sure that living there is very nice. I have been there once, and it seemed very, very nice.
But I just want to point out one negative incentive created by such equality.
To me, one of the truly amazing things is that the German economy has remained so strong, and the German businesspeople have been so successful, despite the high income equality and despite the high regulations and taxes.
"[SNIP]To a certain jaded sensibility, what makes Scandinavia particularly magical is what it lacks. "There is no national anti-gay rights movement," writes Zuckerman, "there are no 'Jesus fish' imprinted on advertisements in the yellow pages, there are no school boards or school administrators who publicly doubt the evidence for human evolution ... there are no religiously inspired 'abstinence only' sex education curricula ... there are no parental groups lobbying schools and city councils to remove Harry Potter books from school and public libraries ... there are no restaurants that include Bible verses on their menus and placemats, there are no 'Faith Nights' at national sporting events ..."
Not to put too fine a point on it, there's no God. ... (same link as above)
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 22, 2008 5:39 PM If everyone has the same type house, the same type car, and the same income, isn't there a tendency of people to then "free ride" off the others ?
I am familiar with one such community in Princeton (a city where Paul Krugman lives, BTW) and did not get that impression at all. Another thing is that I would hate to live there myself, although I taught there for a year...
Mother tongue: English Joined: April 28, 2004 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Fascinating thread. Was it here or in some other thread that the TC financial geniuses were opining that 1) the dollar's days as the world's reserve currency were coming to an and; and 2) the rest of the world would soon be "decoupled" from the US economy?
I suppose I can look for this info in a previous post....
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Scott Rasmussen on October 22, 2008 5:57 PM I suppose I can look for this info in a previous post....
And what do you find?
Here is an essay of two years ago, accessible also to non-geniuses: Post #101993. We also know that the value of dollar is inversely pegged to the oil prices, so with the latter tumbling, dollar is back on the stage now. This is not the result of the world's growing confidence in the US economy.
On decoupling I don't think we can find much here though. On the contrary, with all the boasting about the economies of China and India, the specter of the US irresponsibility, greed and folly dragging the rest of the world into a precipice has accompanied a huge number of TC posts. That's why, by the way, the whole world has been so intensly watching the U.S. presidential elections in the last decade.
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
It's not question of dropping down the thread into a simplist comparison between individuality and total communautarism or communism.
I just think that the minimum (called it dignity) MUST be guaranteed for all citizens, then the best can go as high as they want. Hard to do if you have 50 millions people with no health insurance. But I reckon that I mitigate now my point of view about this topic after the clear explanations of John.
I still think that one of the best economic system is the Scandinavian and the Dutch ones. Once again and in porr words: dignity is guaranteed for all citizens (health, education, minimum guaranteed wage even if you're disoccupied...) then the rich can make as much money as they want on the conidtion that: more money they make, more taxes they pay.
Salaam
PS: John, it's very very difficult for my small country (Tunisia) to compete with the US in healthcare system today in 2008. We had our independence some 50 years ago. How was USA 50 years after its independence? Anyhow, Oussama Mellouli has bet your best swimmers in Beijing (1500 mt)
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on October 22, 2008 7:17 PM
... the rich can make as much money as they want on the condition that: more money they make, more taxes they pay.
I've always liked Margaret Atwood's essential humanism.
"Debt — who owes what to whom, or to what, and how that debt gets paid — is a subject much larger than money. It has to do with our basic sense of fairness, a sense that is embedded in all of our exchanges with our fellow human beings.
[…]
We are social creatures who must interact for mutual benefit, and — the negative version — who harbor grudges when we feel we’ve been treated unfairly. Without a sense of fairness and also a level of trust, without a system of reciprocal altruism and tit-for-tat — one good turn deserves another, and so does one bad turn — no one would ever lend anything, as there would be no expectation of being paid back.
[…]
The fairness essential to debt and redemption is reflected in the afterlives of many religions, in which crimes unpunished in this world get their comeuppance in the next. For instance, hell, in Dante’s “Divine Comedy,” is the place where absolutely everything is remembered by those in torment, whereas in heaven you forget your personal self and who still owes you five bucks and instead turn to the contemplation of selfless Being.
[…]
As for what will happen to us next, I have no safe answers. If fair regulations are established and credibility is restored, people will stop walking around in a daze, roll up their sleeves and start picking up the pieces. Things unconnected with money will be valued more — friends, family, a walk in the woods. “I” will be spoken less, “we” will return, as people recognize that there is such a thing as the common good.
On the other hand, if fair regulations are not established and rebuilding seems impossible, we could have social unrest on a scale we haven’t seen for years.
Is there any bright side to this? Perhaps we’ll have some breathing room — a chance to re-evaluate our goals and to take stock of our relationship to the living planet from which we derive all our nourishment, and without which debt finally won’t matter. "
Margaret Atwood is the author of “The Handmaid’s Tale” and, most recently, “Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth.”
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Nanna, you mentioned abstinence, but one "critique" of northwestern Europe, by the "Christian Right" in the U.S. is that due to secularism and a complete and full access to birth control, the secular Europeans are in a downward demographic spiral, and will soon be a society of old people, with too few young people (unlike the Christian Right in America, with their 3.5 children per couple). As much as I dislike the "Christian Right", I also have a hard time disproving this thesis, given recent demographic trends in some European countries.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 21, 2008 8:32 PM
Marx might be "back".
His prophecy already is according to this piece:
"We have been taught that the market - if not positively immoral - is certainly depraved. We have been taught that in the market there is only one thing that can stimulate competition: profit. ... If you read Marx and Engels' definition of capitalism that is indeed how it is. But if you look at the theory of capitalism of someone like Max Weber, you discover something completely different. [There you learn] that ethics is the key to the performance of capitalism, to the flow of all money, goods and services, which ... only function if there is trust. Yet trusts depends on a sense of ethics. The American crisis has become so widespread because trust in the system has taken a severe battering. Someone somewhere was telling profound lies, so now all 'market actors' have become mistrustful. ... What has happened now is the most obvious proof that greed is definitely a bad thing. Greed, unrestrained by any law - for we can no longer speak of any moral norms in the market - is what is chiefly responsible for the crisis, which has had a grave impact worldwide. To blame are those who ... left the system unregulated so that they could make millions of dollars speculating on the stock market. To blame are those who saw this tsunami approaching and kept quiet. To blame are those who told convenient lies in their company reports. ... In short all those people are to blame who thought greed was a good thing, for that is what capitalism is." Dilema Veche (Romania) http://europe.courrierinternational.com/eurotopics/article.asp?langue=uk&publication=22/10/2008&cat=REFLECTIONS&pi=0#0
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally quoted by Nanna Mercer on October 23, 2008 12:47 AM
Perhaps we’ll have some breathing room — a chance to re-evaluate our goals and to take stock of our relationship to the living planet from which we derive all our nourishment, and without which debt finally won’t matter. "
Thank you, Nanna, for making this thread even more fascinating than Scott says.
The problem with greed is that it should really be controlled at the institutional level because no amount of moralizing at the individual level makes any sense. Why? You cannot expect people to shun the roulette called the stock market when the interest on your bank deposits is lower than the inflation rate. Even more so, when you are saving for your retirement, it's only logical that you want the value of your savings to increase and not decrease over time. That's why people are forced (also by legislation in a country like Poland) to put some of their retirement savings into stocks. I wish luck to all those about to retire this or next year!
[excerpt] Mr Grantham’s scepticism cost him plenty of business during the bullish years, as foolish investors preferred to share Gatsby’s belief in “the green light, the orgiastic future”. Yet, as The Economist reported this August, the mostly bearish ten-year forecasts issued in 1998 by Mr Grantham’s firm, GMO, “proved almost entirely correct”.
So Mr Grantham, a Brit based in New England, knows what he is talking about, which makes his latest GMO letter, “Reaping the Whirlwind”, a must-read. He predicts further house-price falls in America and Britain, a sharp reduction in corporate profits everywhere, and that the Chinese government will “stumble” faced with the “spectacularly complicated task of maintaining the highest economic growth rate in history”. Still, he admits to turning bullish on American shares, like another great investor, Warren Buffett, who last week wrote an op-ed in the New York Times advising people to buy them now. “If you wait for the robins,” Mr Buffett counselled, “spring will be over.”
Mr Grantham admits he will probably fall foul of the Curse of the Value Investor, which is buying too soon. Yet he is convinced that “by October 10th global equities were cheap on an absolute basis and cheaper than at any time in 20 years.”
The most entertaining part of the letter is entitled Where Was Our Leadership? Mr Grantham asks, “Why did our leaders encourage the deregulation, encourage the leveraging and risk-taking, and completely miss or dismiss the growing signs of trouble and what we described as the ‘near certainties’ of bubbles breaking?” Why, indeed?
He offers two theories. The first he calls Career Risk and Bubbles Breaking. The bosses of banks continued piling on leverage and taking ever greater risks because they felt they would be fired if they did not. “It’s what I call the Goldman Sachs Effect: Goldman increased its leverage and its profit margins shot into the stratosphere. Eager to keep up, other banks, with less talent and energy than Goldman, copied them with ultimately disastrous consequences. And woe betide the CEO who missed the game and looked like an old fuddy-duddy. The Board would simply kick him out, in the name of protecting the stockholders’ future profits, and hire in more of a gunslinger from, say, Credit Suisse.”
The second theory reinforces the first, by combining the pressure for ever greater success with the selection of bosses ill-equipped to handle it. Mr Grantham believes that chief executives are “picked for their left-brain skills—focus, hard work, decisiveness, persuasiveness, political skills, and, if you are lucky, analytical skills and charisma.” Great American executives are not picked for patience, he points out, plausibly enough. “Indeed, if they could even spell the word they would be fired. They are not paid to put their feet up or waste time thinking about history and the long-term future; they are paid to be decisive and to act now.”
Only the rare person unconcerned with climbing the ladder, such as Mr Grantham, spoke out about the looming dangers. (Turning bearish before the crowd certainly can involve serious career risk—recall the late Tony Dye, who in March 2000 was fired as a chief investment officer at Phillips & Drew because he had moved out of what he rightly believed were overvalued equities and thus prompted many of the firm’s clients to quit.) ...
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 8:01 AM
Nanna, you mentioned abstinence, but one "critique" of northwestern Europe, by the "Christian Right" in the U.S. is that due to secularism and a complete and full access to birth control, the secular Europeans are in a downward demographic spiral,
Well, John, my hobby-horse is birth control plus cheap, effective and equal access to especially condoms since they are an effective means of stopping the spread of HIV and STD's, so... I am (well, no not sorry), but I don't give a %&#¤ what the Christian Right has to say on the matter. I have spoken to young audiences about birth control plus and I am not even a little bit hesitant about discussing sex and birth control, both of which are linked to the economy.
A 69% tumble? WOW, That's something! Move over, London and Frankfurt!
A casino. Now, that clinches the deal.
Way back in 1984, I think it must have been, on my first and only visit to a casino (this one down in Atlantic City) I took a tumble of 100% playing Black Jack, which convinced me that gambling wasn't my thing. Trying to recoup my losses, I stuck a quarter into a one-armed bandit and nothing, zipplo zilch, while my friend couldn't stop winning --- thousands --- using the same machine
For more than three months, as turmoil in the credit market has swept wildly through Wall Street, one mighty investment bank after another has been brought to its knees, leveled by multibillion-dollar blows to their bottom lines.
Rarely on Wall Street, where money travels in herds, has one firm gotten it so right when nearly everyone else was getting it so wrong.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 16, 2008 1:51 PM
The investment bank Goldman Sachs suffered a 70% slump in quarterly profits to $845m (£475m) as it caught a chill from the ill wind blown by the global credit crunch. ...
Until recently, Goldman was viewed as one of Wall Street's few winners from the global credit crunch. It made record profits last year when its traders correctly forecast a slump in the sub-prime mortgage industry. ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/16/goldmansachs.wallstreet
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 24, 2008 12:08 PM
The billionaire Warren Buffett will invest $5 billion in the investment bank Goldman Sachs as part of the bank's efforts to raise $7.5 billion in fresh capital, a Goldman Sach spokesman said Tuesday: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/24/business/24goldman.php
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Jacek wrote:
"The American crisis has become so widespread because trust in the system has taken a severe battering. Someone somewhere was telling profound lies, so now all 'market actors' have become mistrustful. ... What has happened now is the most obvious proof that greed is definitely a bad thing. Greed, unrestrained by any law - for we can no longer speak of any moral norms in the market - is what is chiefly responsible for the crisis, which has had a grave impact worldwide."
My comments:
- It is not an "American crisis", it is a worldwide crisis. Worldwide, there is just "too much" capital floating around, especially after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent rise of China and India, and their turn away from socialism and toward capitalism. The capital that Asia has accumulated over the years has sought the best returns (is that "greed" ?), and that went into housing in the U.S. (indirectly). But why ? One reason was due to the U.S. government backing bad mortgages and pushing home ownership, for instance, through the tax code and through various agencies (Fannie Mae) and regulations (The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977). The U.S. government, as well as central banks, worldwide, also kept interest rates too low for too long, which created the bubble in housing. Is that another example of "greed", or is it more an example of how government can make things bad or worse by doing things without understanding the results down the line ? I would argue that not greed, but lack of transparency and creating the wrong incentives were the main culprits. And one reason for the lack of transparency were the bad mortgages injected into the sytem. Most people who study this now blame Greenspan and the Fed for this problem, for holding interest rates too low after 2000. This is not an example of "the free market running amok", by the way, but rather, the opposite: governmental regulations and actions creating actions among market participants which lacked transparency and were detrimental to the entire system. But we now hear how "the free market" is in crisis, and the remedy is government action and regulation. The setting of interest rates for an entire economy by a federal agency is not an example of how deregulation failed us, because the Fed is part of government.
I would agree with you in the sense that banks sought to maximize profit by securitzing financial objects, so I guess you can call them "greedy" (when were bankers not greedy ?). (on the other hand, if greed was the source, why didn't this problem hit us in 1996. Were people back then less greedy than today ?). I prefer to look at systematic incentives rather than personal motive as a guide to what happens politically. We can count on people being egotistical and self-centered, or let's say, "self-interested" (most if not all are that way, mostly), so that is a given. But what incentives are created that lead people to do certain things with their "greed" is the real question.
After all, when the Japanese financial crisis hit in 1990, lack of regulation was not the problem, because the banks were heavily regulated at that time. That is one reason that I don't think that "de-regulation" was the problem in the U.S., as the Left now claims.
The problem with Marxism, in my view, is that it tends to start from the point of view of personal motive (people should want to do good, etc.), rather than what Adam Smith for example "preached", which was that motive is not very important, because almost everyone is self-interested in the sense that they will generally and almost at all times put themselves first and others second. The U.S. Founding Fathers also built the entire U.S. on that pessimistic view of human nature, and I think that Smith and the Founders were very much right about that, and Marx was very much wrong about that. The error of socialism is to think that you can build a better society by promoting good motives and "perfecting" people. It is an overly optimistic, and ultimately dangerous view of people. Much better to realize that people are self-interested mostly and then set up the right incentives, so that the "system" functions the best. And that is what the free market is about. The great dichotomy in the West is between those who take the "Marxian" (French/German philosophy) view of the "perfectibility of man" (French Revolution), and those who take the pessimistic view of man (Smith, the Founders, Edmund Burke). The former we now call socialists or liberals, the latter, conservatives or free marketers.
By the way, the "bailout" is creating all the wrong incentives. I am sure that we will have another financial crisis 10 years or so down the line, set up by the incentives the governments are now creating, whereby they are rewarding and bailing out the exact people who got us into this mess.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 7:52 PM if greed was the source, why didn't this problem hit us in 1996?
Allow me to quote myself, for a change, John:
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 1, 2008 4:47 PM
Derivatives and hedge funds are old game.
So is securitization, except that in the 1970s when it was born, it only accounted for 1% of lending in the United States. Now it is behind 57% of all the money lent there.
The real culprit behind the subprime crisis seems to be securitization (as explained earlier in this thread, in various primers) on which I will have more exact figures tomorrow.
Otherwise, our terminological debate over "greed" remains largely academic. For example, banks normally choose to pay less on their cutomers' deposits than the CPI is: hypothetically, with a 2% inflation, you may get 1% on your money which the bank lends on at 8%. Why would they insist on earning a 7% spread rather than 6% which would preserve the value of their customers' deposits, considering that normally those cutomers pay fees to maintain their accounts? Because if you have a choice to earn 6% vs. 7%, you'd rather go for the latter. Absolutely, we don't have to call it greed.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
What a person gets paid depends on what others are willing to give him or her, which is in part dictated by supply and demand (as are all prices of anything). Companies do not charge prices based on their "greed", but on the highest price that others are willing to pay them for whatever they are selling. If a banker makes millions, it is because someone is willing to pay him or her that much, not because he set the price that high due to "greed", right ? (we translators are paid not based on how greedy we are, but on that price that the buyer is willing to pay.
If it were not the case, I would just charge $ 20 per line for translation and then admit that I am "greedy".
_____________
A good article on how government actions fuelled the financial crisis:
Econ 101: The Financial Crisis and Danger of Government Intervention Current meltdown is the result of Washington's interference in free markets.
By Gary Wolfram Business & Media Institute 10/8/2008 8:12:04 AM
Ludwig von Mises in a classic 1927 book, Liberalism, wrote that government intervention in markets would lead inevitably to unintended consequences that resulted in further government intervention.
The current financial difficulties are the result of a series of government actions that has culminated in vastly expanded government intervention in the credit markets, which may provide short-term relief but is dangerous in the long run.
It is difficult to correct a problem when the cause of the problem is misunderstood. The presidential and vice-presidential candidates have all said that “Wall Street greed” has led to the financial mess we are in. On the very face of it, this does not seem likely.Even if greed leads to problems, is it possible that greed has suddenly become much greater than before?
One beauty of the market system is that individual self-interest (which is not greed but that is the subject of another commentary) is satisfied only by pleasing other people, and the structure of the market leads individual interest “as if by an invisible hand” to support the public interest. No such mechanism exists in the institutions of government.
Our current financial crisis is the result of several government interventions in the market – Fannie Mae's government sponsorship, the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, the creation of the secondary mortgage market and imposition of government accounting rules.
One underlying cause of the current crisis is the expanded housing market where loans were made that could not be paid off by the borrower. A quick summary analysis is that that the government attempted to increase home ownership beyond what the market would or could sustain.
First, we can look at the creation of Fannie Mae in 1938 as part of the New Deal. It was a government entity that dominated the secondary mortgage market in the United States. In 1968, in order to remove its balance sheet from that of the government’s, Fannie Mae was turned into a stock holder-owned entity, but not quite a private corporation, called a government sponsored enterprise.
In a series of regulatory changes, Fannie Mae was granted certain privileges in order to expand credit into the subprime market. In 1999 The New York Times reported on the expansion of credit to minority borrowers through easing credit restrictions.
“In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times.But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s,” the Times warned.
In 2004, the government changed regulations and further encouraged high risk mortgages. The result of all this was the creation of a secondary mortgage market that would not have existed in such size and scope had the government not attempted to increase the home ownership rate.
This distortion of the housing market was further aggravated by the Community Reinvestment Act in 1977 and its subsequent amendments. This federal legislation basically required banks to expand their mortgages into areas where the economic fundamentals indicated borrowers would not be likely to make mortgage payments.
Another major government intervention has been the expansion of credit pursued by the Federal Reserve through its policy of targeting a federal funds rate below the rate of inflation. This artificially low rate of interest led to what Nobel Laureate Friedrich Hayek termed “malinvestment.” Austrian business cycle theory predicts that artificial credit expansion leads to investment in assets that will not be sustainable (in this case housing stock). This is a reasonable explanation for the housing bubble.
Yet another interference, the mandatory use of government accounting rules requiring banks to mark their assets to the market price, which in thinly traded assets may be the last sale, led to lending institutions having to write down their capital when the mortgage-backed securities began to sell at fire-sale prices.
As a result, banks as a group had to seek additional capital, with few banks willing to lend precious capital to rival institutions. The lack of certainty in the value of mortgage-based securities meant that few banks wanted to hold them. This further froze the market in these assets, reducing their value and creating a crisis in capital. Economist Brian Wesbury has said that the majority of the credit crisis has been caused “by mark-to-market accounting in an illiquid market.”
The President and Secretary of the Treasury came before a national audience on Sept. 20 and announced that if the Treasury Secretary was not given $700 billion to purchase securities and take equity positions in the banking sector by Sept. 22, we risked a major financial collapse. This, of course, did little to calm the markets since the President didn’t already have the votes for passage. This created further uncertainties that lead to more market disruption.
Unfortunately, as Mises predicted, the response to the financial meltdown has not been that the government should cease attempting to increase home ownership beyond what can be sustained in the market and should refrain from excessive increases in the credit markets. Instead, the attitude of many in the media and government has been that a crisis has occurred due to unfettered market capitalism and that government must be expanded in order to solve the crisis.
Mises defined socialism as state ownership of property. Under the bailout plan, taxpayers will be “protected” by taking equity interest in the financial institutions that take advantage of the Treasury offer. Will you receive shares of AIG stock in the mail? No. What this really means is that the government will own shares of the company – i.e., the socialization of the financial industry.
What is likely to happen is that markets will once again reach equilibrium after adjusting to the malinvestment in housing and mortgage-backed securities. The federal government will have increased its intervention in the marketplace, which is really the long run threat to the nation and the economy. The security of our economic system lies in an understanding of the efficiency of the market system and its ability to provide wealth for the masses and realization of the failures of central planning and the process by which we end up there.
Gary Wolfram is the William Simon Professor of Economics and Public Policy at HillsdaleCollege.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 8:45 PM What a person gets paid depends on what others are willing to give him or her, which is in part dictated by supply and demand (as are all prices of anything).
Right. To rephrase my previous example and at the same time put an end once for all to the endless discussions on TC: hypothetically, with a 2 cents/word going rate, you may get 1 cent/word for your product which the agency sells on for 8 cents/word. Why would they insist on earning a 7-cent spread rather than 6 cents which would be more decent for the translator's survival? Because if you have a choice to earn 6 cents/word commission vs. 7 cents you'd rather go for the latter. Absolutely, we don't have to call it greed.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
I think that all prices are ultimately determined by supply and demand. Of course, in the short term, maybe not. I paid "too much" yesterday for the new Google Phone (which is, by the way, very, very nice). But did I pay that because T-Mobile is "greedy", or is it rather because there is low supply right now of the phone, and large demand, which according to my Econ.101 textbook, means, they can get more from me for the phone right now, as opposed to 5 months from now.
One way of looking at that is to say, T-Mobile is just getting as much for the phone as they think they can, given supply and demand. The other way is to attribute "greed" to them and say, it was all about that.
I also doubt that in 6 months time, when the phone is 50 % as expensive as it is now, that T-Mobile will be 50 % less "greedy".
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
These are all classical 101 examples, as you've noticed, John. The securitization (repackaging of debt) mania, on the other hand, had a lot to do with madness. How about that instead of "greed"? And then there is The Economist I quoted in Post #159166 which entitled that article "The dangers of left-brained bank bosses." That's another way of calling what does seem to be a problem now.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Hi Jacek, well, that part of your analysis, I agree with. The Financial Times had an article about how the banks purposely made their financial vehicles as complex as possible, in order to corner the market. Let's face it, if Goldman Sachs packages an extremely complex securitized bundle of mortgage debt and then sells it to someone in London or Singapore or Dubai, who also needs a person with a PhD in math to even understand what they might be buying, it locks out a lot of people from the "free market". In that sense, the banks are behaving as cartels, and maybe even as an "aristocracy". I agree with that. The "greed" part is that they did this in order to make more money. The scary thing is that they are allowed to do this. I personally think that this is where government should step in (I really wonder where the SEC was in all this, too !).
In future: I would not mind seeing our best mathematical minds from MIT and Stanford and Harvard go into designing actual products and things people use physically, or software, etc., rather than repackaging securitized asset-based securities which only other PhDs can understand, and that all supported by the banks in order to make more money. It sucks our best minds into finance, which I think is less productive than other industries. But it also seems to be an "Anglo-Saxon disease" that we think that it is o.k. to go into finance or law, but not engineering.
I agree with you on that part of it. They are greedy, but the mistake in the system is still lack of transparency, and I think, cartel-like behavior, mixed in with bad incentives created by the government, and lack of oversight.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 7:52 PM why didn't this problem hit us in 1996?
According to the ratings agency Moody's (and the rating agencies also contributed to the crisis), subprime mortgages made up less than nine per cent of total mortgages in the US in 1996. By 2006, subprime accounted for 22 per cent of the Amercian mortgage market. The Economist reports that the value of subprime mortgages written in the US in 2006 reached US$600 billion and climbed further after that.
Yes, low interest rates inflated the housing bubble which then burst all the more easily when the relevant sub-prime securitizers (SPVs) went after defaulting homeowners. Their houses were sold to recover some of the money due to the securitization noteholders in such great numbers that the prices of US houses started to drop as the market was flooded with more and more of them*. Unable to make all the required payments to the securitization noteholders many SPVs collapsed. Bad apples, packaged with better apples, sent waves of defaults throughout the system exacerbating the problem.
If not "greed," "mania," "left-brain problem," then "wanton lending," as proposed by Greenspan yesterday. I am fine with any of these terms which only illustrate the utmost blinded irresponsibility of those in charge.
But on Thursday, almost three years after stepping down as chairman of the Federal Reserve, a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending.
“Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” he told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. ...
He noted that the immense and largely unregulated business of spreading financial risk widely, through the use of exotic financial instruments called derivatives, had gotten out of control and had added to the havoc of today’s crisis. As far back as 1994, Mr. Greenspan staunchly and successfully opposed tougher regulation on derivatives.
But on Thursday, he agreed that the multitrillion-dollar market for credit default swaps, instruments originally created to insure bond investors against the risk of default, needed to be restrained. ...
“The evidence strongly suggests that without the excess demand from securitizers, subprime mortgage originations (undeniably the original source of the crisis) would have been far smaller and defaults accordingly far lower,” he said.
Despite his chagrin over the mortgage mess, the former Fed chairman proposed only one specific regulation: that companies selling mortgage-backed securities be required to hold a significant number themselves.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 7:52 PM I don't think that "de-regulation" was the problem in the U.S., as the Left now claims.
Speaking of "Left" or "left" (brain),
Both Obama and McCain are sinistral - lefties to you and me - in contrast to the present incumbent of the Oval office. One of them will be the fourth left-handed president out of the five past holders of the world's most powerful office, a fact that has intrigued neurologists and confounded probability theorists.
Obama or McCain will become the 44th US president, and within that distinguished company will be the eighth known to be left-handed. The victor will become the sixth lefty out of 12 presidents since the end of the second world war, stretching back to Harry Truman. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/24/barack-obama-mccain-white-house-left-handed
The Republicans spent about $150,000 on a clothing makeover for Ms. Palin and her family, according to financial disclosure forms. But looking at the before-and-after photos, it was not readily apparent what Ms. Palin got, exactly, from her shopping spree at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue.
What the number $150,000 suggests is that Ms. Palin traded up to designer versions of the clothes she wore before stepping onto the national stage, a surprising implication for a candidate who emphasizes her appeal to working-class voters.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 7:52 PM
The error of socialism is to think that you can build a better society by promoting good motives and "perfecting" people. It is an overly optimistic, and ultimately dangerous view of people. Much better to realize that people are self-interested mostly and then set up the right incentives, so that the "system" functions the best. And that is what the free market is about. The great dichotomy in the West is between those who take the "Marxian" (French/German philosophy) view of the "perfectibility of man" (French Revolution), and those who take the pessimistic view of man (Smith, the Founders, Edmund Burke). The former we now call socialists or liberals, the latter, conservatives or free marketers.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 7:52 PM
The great dichotomy in the West is between those who take the "Marxian" (French/German philosophy) view of the "perfectibility of man" (French Revolution), and those who take the pessimistic view of man (Smith, the Founders, Edmund Burke).
The cause of Edmund Burke, Leo Strauss, Robert Nisbet and William F. Buckley Jr. is now in the hands of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity--and Sarah Palin. Reason has been overwhelmed by propaganda, ideas by slogans, learned manifestoes by direct-mail hit pieces. ...
Conservatism has finally crashed on problems for which its doctrines offered no solutions (the economic crisis foremost among them, thus Bush's apostasy) and on its refusal to acknowledge that the "real America" is more diverse, pragmatic and culturally moderate than the place described in Palin's speeches or imagined by the right-wing talk show hosts. ...
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Stephen Bensinger's severance payment...
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 8:45 PM
What a person gets paid depends on what others are willing to give him or her .... If a banker makes millions, it is because someone is willing to pay him or her that much ....
Only for so long...
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on October 19, 2008 12:01 PM
New York’s attorney general, Andrew Cuomo about A. I. G.:
“We stopped a $10 million severance payment to Stephen Bensinger, the chief financial officer,” ...
IKB's former chief executive, Stefan Ortseifen, has been asked to return €805,000 ($1 million) in bonus pay, while three other ex-managers -- Volker Doberanzke, Markus Guthoff and Joachim Neupel -- have been asked to repay amounts in the range of half a million euros each. http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,585981,00.html
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 8:45 PM
"Current meltdown is the result of Washington's interference in free markets."
Blame Washington rather than your own behavior is obviously the main Republican campaign slogan. Here is another title from the Wall Street Journal which is in the tank* for the G.O.P.:
According to a small but powerful group of America's financial decision makers—mostly supply-siders and those in their thrall—the chief cause of the credit market meltdown is not folly, or reckless lending, or the demise of America's financial management. It's an accounting rule. http://www.newsweek.com/id/130029
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Only for so long . . .
Jacek, a couple of points:
- I agree with most of your critique of Wall Street and the GOP. The Republican Party used to be a party of: a. individual freedom, b. limited government, and c. anti-communism (and a strong national defense). It was like that during Goldwater and to a degree, Reagan. But under Bush, it has given up many of those values, and turned to moralism, profligate spending, corruption, and international "adventurism".
- Yes, the private sector is to blame too: Wall Street bankers who knowingly made über-complex derivatives and passed the risks on down the line. This is scandalous. Unlike Enron, so far, the government has bailed the very people out who did this, and so far, no one is going to jail for it, unlike Enron. However, it is now alleged that there was fraud.
- Not many are talking about the $ 90 million that Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines made, while Fannie (a "public company with government oversight") was wrecking the economy (as the head of a public company with government oversight, is it an example of "public offical greed" ?). A couple years ago, Raines was called before Democrat Barney Frank's committee, and Frank dismissed all calls to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This is another example of how government got us into this mess and did nothing to stop it. It recently came out that a high-ranking SEC official in Miami dropped an investigation into Bear Stearns (allegedly) because of a love affair with an attorney from the people he was supposed to be monitoring. Unfortunately, government is made up of very fallible human beings, not the paragons that the Left wants them to be. Instead of overseeing this, they either ignore it, take part in it, or dismiss it. Fannie Mae donated millions to both parties, and it is now alleged that they just paid for a lack of oversight. When people now call for more oversight, how do we know we won't get more of this ?
- When the Japanese banking system hit the wall in 1990, it was very, very regulated. Thus, one cannot always say that lack of regulation = financial crisis.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Only for so long . . .
Originally written by John Bunch on October 24, 2008 7:06 PM one cannot always say that lack of regulation = financial crisis.
And vice versa. Polish banking system has steered clear of all the American trash securities and yet, with Polish economy steadily growing, when Wall Street sneezed and one Hungarian bank caught a cold, we are in dire straights here too. That's because the whole world consists of connected vessels and the whole world should work on preventing one elephant from wreaking havoc in our common china store.
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on October 24, 2008 3:35 PM
Originally written by John Bunch on October 23, 2008 8:45 PM ...If a banker makes millions, it is because someone is willing to pay him or her that much ....
Only for so long...
Recent works by the Republican vice presidential candidate
"On the Bailout"
Ultimately, What the bailout does Is help those who are concerned About the health care reform That is needed To help shore up our economy, Helping the— It's got to be all about job creation, too.
Shoring up our economy And putting it back on the right track. So health care reform And reducing taxes And reining in spending Has got to accompany tax reductions And tax relief for Americans. And trade.
We've got to see trade As opportunity Not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs Being created in the trade sector today, We've got to look at that As more opportunity. All those things.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: To help shore up our economy...
I totally agree. We live in a world economy and everything is interconnected. We live on one planet, and we share one environment, and one economic system, really. Thus, we need to all work together to prevent a worldwide depression. I think, thank God, everyone now recognizes that, and they are working hard together. Of course, we Americans recognize our large part in this problem, but the time for finger-pointing is over and we need to fix the leaks in our common boat before it sinks.
I am personally very concerned about the dangers of economic nationalism and protectionism, and I hope we can prevent that.
Originally written by David Kallans on October 23, 2008 5:46 PM All banking is faith based ....
You can say that again!
Chase recently received $25 billion in federal funding...
Given … that Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had decided to use the first installment of the $700 billion bailout money to recapitalize banks instead of buying up their toxic securities, which he had then sold to Congress and the American people as the best and fastest way to get the banks to start making loans again, and help prevent this recession from getting much, much worse.
In point of fact, the dirty little secret of the banking industry is that it has no intention of using the money to make new loans. But this executive was the first insider who’s been indiscreet enough to say it within earshot of a journalist. (He didn’t mean to, of course, but I obtained the call-in number and listened to a recording.)
“Twenty-five billion dollars is obviously going to help the folks who are struggling more than Chase,” he began. “What we do think it will help us do is perhaps be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling. And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as a backstop.); sizingMethod="image" ref_bubble.png?, word_reference global images graphics8.nytimes.com http:>”
Read that answer as many times as you want — you are not going to find a single word in there about making loans to help the American economy. On the contrary: at another point in the conference call, the same executive (who I’m not naming because he didn’t know I would be listening in) explained that ….
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Let them eat cake...
There was a good essay yesterday in the Wall Street Journal by the CEO of FedEX, about how heavily the U.S. taxes the "producing economy". The U.S., among industrial nations, has the highest corporate tax rate (35 %). In contrast, heavily-taxed Germany's rate is only 25 % (Obama wants to retain this; McCain wants to reduce ours to 25 %). The end result is not only the "outsourcing" of jobs, but also the outsourcing of our producing assets. Financial companies can be highly leveraged, but the "real economy" that produces things or moves packages, like FedEx, has to have a much lower asset to capital ratio. This hurts the U.S.
I personally am a bit "confused" by Obama: he wants to "protect" U.S. workers, while at the same time maintaining that the 35 % corporate tax rate - the very thing driving jobs offshore - is to him o.k. I don't get that.
For years, credit rating agencies--the referees of Wall Street--insisted they were an impartial source of information, despite their financial reliance on the companies they rated. Then came the market meltdown--and a chorus of accusations that firms had artificially inflated their risk ratings to please their clients and gain a competitive edge. And now there's plenty of evidence to suggest the "referees" were unduly influenced by the players.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
Unable to help myself, I asked (with the most serious expression) the teller at my bank how soon the funds would be available in my account as I wanted to go shopping. With just as serious an expression she said, “Oh, Mr. Tucker, the money isn’t for you. It is for the bank.” So far this bailout, rescue, or whatever other term is applied leaves a bad taste in my mouth -and no more money in my account. I guess it is going to be the same as usual for me -living within my budget. Damn, and I was wanting to go shopping.
WASHINGTON – The Treasury Department will start doling out $125 billion to nine major banks this week to get credit flowing again, giving a lift to U.S. markets on rising confidence that the government's moves would stave off a protracted recession
PRINCETON, New Jersey: Economic data rarely inspire poetic thoughts. But as I was contemplating the latest set of numbers, I realized that I had William Butler Yeats running through my head: "Turning and turning in the widening gyre / The falcon cannot hear the falconer; / Things fall apart; the center cannot hold." http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/27/opinion/edkrugman.php
Are Americans living in a recession or a financial apocalypse? Is now a time for prudent financial choices or a time to pray? Sean Cole reports for Marketplace that some economists are embracing the gloomy financial indicators as a sign that Armageddon is upon us. Cole talked to an “end times economist” who said that the current recession is God “saying that this world's financial system is built upon an unrighteous foundation.”
The financial system has become a religious cult of its own, Peter Laarman writes for Religion Dispatches. The financial crisis was caused in part by an adherence to “economism,” a creed that Laarman describes as “the notion that every part of human life is governed by economic considerations and that everything that happens—or at least everything that matters—is reducible to human monads pursuing their rational self-interest.”
Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Five straight quarters of losses and a 70 percent slide in its stock this year haven't stopped Merrill Lynch & Co. from allocating about $6.7 billion to pay bonuses.
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, both still on track for profitable years, have set aside about $13 billion for bonuses after three quarters, down 28 percent from a year ago. Even some employees at Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., which declared the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history last month, will get the same bonus they received a year ago.
...some employees at Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., which declared the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history last month, will get the same bonus they received a year ago.
Maybe there's a correlation here: beauty, brokers and bonuses.
"Ugliness has recently emerged as a serious subject of study and academic interest unto itself, …. Sociologists, writers, lawyers and economists have begun to examine ugliness, suggesting that the subject has been marginalized in history and that discrimination against the unattractive, while difficult to document or prevent, is a quiet but widespread injustice.
One pioneering study, “Beauty and the Labor Market,”; published in the American Economic Review in 1994, estimated that unattractive men and women earn five to 10 percent less than those considered attractive or beautiful, ...
Mother tongue: English Posts: 664 Joined: August 3, 2003 Location: United States
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RE: Economy
High gas prices are not always bad, just ask Exxon. Now, however, that the price at the pump is falling ... I see a possible future bailout.
David
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever
HOUSTON – Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, reported income Thursday that shattered its own record for the biggest profit from operations by a U.S. corporation, earning $14.83 billion in the third quarter.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Top hedge fund manager slams 'idiot' bankers
A hedge fund manager who made what is thought to be one of the biggest percentage profits of all time bowed out of the business on Friday with a fierce attack on the "idiots" running big banks who were willing to take the other side of his bets. http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto101720081625437042
Recently, on the front page of Section C of the Wall Street Journal, a hedge fund manager who was also closing up shop (a $300 million fund), was quoted as saying, "What I have learned about the hedge fund business is that I hate it." I could not agree more with that statement. I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America. (via http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/hedge-fund-manager-quits-slams-idiot-mbas-urges-hemp-investments)
What strikes me about it is the way in which certain key cultural characteristics – especially in the USA – may have been to key contributory factors to the problems. Let me briefly explain what I mean by this:
• Individualism: A key US characteristic (seen as a virtue in the States) which leads employees to have less of a sense of responsibility to the company and more of a sense of responsibility to themselves. This is one of the great strengths of the US economy but is it possible that, if left unchallenged, it can have the consequence of people making short-term decisions to better themselves at the expense of a greater whole?
• Short-termism: One of the by-products of economies which are mainly equity financed (USA, UK etc.) is that people are driven by quarterly results. This again leads to people taking short-term decisions and looking for ‘quick wins’ at the expense of a more coherent long-term strategy. This short-term outlook is, of course, exacerbated by a bonus culture which rewards people for delivering results NOW.
• Enthusiasm: One of the biggest differences in approach to business between employees in the US and many of their European colleagues would be that, whereas people in the US are expected to have a positive, enthusiastic, ‘can-do’ mentality, many Europeans would expect to show a more cautious (even cynical) approach. This leads people in the States to feel a need to join in enthusiastically with new ideas and to be seen as really positive. Can this also lead to a lack of rigorous analysis? Are people afraid to challenge bad ideas because of the risk of seeming negative and a ‘trouble-maker’? ... http://www.worldbusinessculture.com/blog/?p=5
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
I tend to agree with that in general.
However, let's just say that financial crises are not American by nature. Japan had a highly consensus-oriented (to put it mildly) culture in 1990, and the economy was the opposite of quarterly-profit driven (I remember in 1993 a businessman in Germany telling me that the Japanese managers would plan "250 years into the future" (!). Their markets were tightly regulated, and their bubble burst. Ditto the Asian financial meltdown of 1997, etc.
I do agree with your overall point, though. Having worked in Europe and the U.S., I would say, you are right. The Germans for instance are much more consensus-driven, and the Americans are individualists who favor a "sign-off" culture at most businesses.
I do however, think that there are differences. There are U.S. companies like SAS that are very "European" in their overall mentality (35-hour workweek, day care on site, etc.), and there are European companies that are more "American". Also, there are a lot of international companies that have an "international" culture, which is neither European nor American, and I think that this will become more prevalent. The reality is that businesses are becoming much more international. For instance, Nokia now is "majority-owned" by American shareholders, but remains a very Finnish company. But if you work for Nokia in Irving, Texas, do you work for an American company, or a Finnish company ? Hard to say... (especially when the employees are from all over the globe).
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy - Take a break
Originally written by John Bunch on November 6, 2008 10:01 PM
However, let's just say that financial crises are not American by nature. Japan had a highly consensus-oriented (to put it mildly) culture in 1990, and the economy was the opposite of quarterly-profit driven (I remember in 1993 a businessman in Germany telling me that the Japanese managers would plan "250 years into the future" (!). Their markets were tightly regulated, and their bubble burst. Ditto the Asian financial meltdown of 1997, etc.
There are U.S. companies like SAS that are very "European" in their overall mentality (35-hour workweek, day care on site, etc.), and there are European companies that are more "American".
Through "internationally" coordinated action, the yen appreciated from 360 to 80 per dollar in the 80s. Do you expect international funds not to flow into Japan to help inflate the bubble and make it a more memorable bang?
As if that was not enough, the Americans then started complaining that Japanese workers were putting in too many hours and therefore had no time to spend their money which would increase imports. Incredibly, the Japanese government did increase the number of public holidays to appease the then number 1 market and sole security guarantor.
If you compare the Japanese public holidays for 2009 with that of London and New York, you will find that Tokyo has 17 days of public holidays versus 9 for New York and 8 for London. For patriotic types of holidays, New York has 3 (Washington's Birthday, Memorial, Independence) while Tokyo has 4 (National Foundation, Showa, Constitution Memorial, Emperor's Birthday). In addition, can the US beat public holidays in Tokyo for Greenery Day, Marine Day, Health and Sports Day, Children's Day, Culture Day, and not to mention the traditional Coming of Age Day?
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy - Take a break
I don't really understand your point. What do holidays have to do with Japan's bubble in 1990 ?
BTW, David, there is a difference between a profit, and a profit margin. They are not the same thing. Also, gross profit is not the same things as net profit.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
SHANGHAI (AFP) — Spotting an opening in the global fight for talent, China's ambitious financial institutions are planning recruiting trips to London and Wall Street on the wounded financial titans' home turf.
Sovereign fund China Investment Corporation has begun a global search, multi-billion dollar Chinese-French fund Fortune SGAM plans interviews on Wall Street and Shanghai's government is headed to London and New York next month with job offers in hand.
The salient feature of the current financial crisis is that it was not caused by some external shock like OPEC raising the price of oil or a particular country or financial institution defaulting. The crisis was generated by the financial system itself.
In my book The New Paradigm for Financial Markets, I argue that the current crisis differs from the various financial crises that preceded it. I base that assertion on the hypothesis that the explosion of the US housing bubble acted as the detonator for a much larger "super-bubble" that has been developing since the 1980s. The underlying trend in the super-bubble has been the ever-increasing use of credit and leverage. Credit—whether extended to consumers or speculators or banks—has been growing at a much faster rate than the GDP ever since the end of World War II. But the rate of growth accelerated and took on the characteristics of a bubble when it was reinforced by a misconception that became dominant in 1980 when Ronald Reagan became president and Margaret Thatcher was prime minister in the United Kingdom.
The misconception is derived from the prevailing theory of financial markets, which, as mentioned earlier, holds that financial markets tend toward equilibrium and that deviations are random and can be attributed to external causes. This theory has been used to justify the belief that the pursuit of self-interest should be given free rein and markets should be deregulated. I call that belief market fundamentalism and claim that it employs false logic. Just because regulations and all other forms of governmental interventions have proven to be faulty, it does not follow that markets are perfect. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22113
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy - Take a break
Originally written by John Bunch on November 9, 2008 9:21 AM I don't really understand your point. What do holidays have to do with Japan's bubble in 1990 ?
Try eating Washington apples with the skins intact. It was used to illustrate that the bubble had some American input (the US was not totally blame-free) and the holidays were just a follow-up pressure from US.
But talking about the relation of holidays and bubbles, President Roosevelt did declare a 1-week bank holiday (to prevent bank-runs) on his first day in office!
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy - Take a break
Hi Jacek, I get Soros's point. My point is, because government action (setting central interest rates, "backing" sub-prime mortgages, etc.) is always intertwined with what the free market does, it really is hard to say who is at fault. Some say that this crisis is endemic of capitalism, and the Marxists (and I can't disprove them !) say that this is endemic of capitalism. Some free marketers blame socialism and government action (setting the interest rates too low for too long, Fannie Mae, etc.). I do think that government did allow more risk into the system by allowing people to think that the sub-prime securities are "backed" by the government, and the private sector created the crisis by purposely making very complex securities that only their PhDs in mathematics could understand. There is no doubt enough blame to go around....
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by Jacek Krankowski on September 25, 2008 4:54 PM in Post #156628
Fellow Investor,
Since the Conventions ending, I'm starting to get extremely nervous.
Why? Because the result of the 2008 Presidential Election is now 100% predictable.
You see, whether McCain or Obama ends up in the White House come January, one thing is clear: The Democrats will retain control of both houses of Congress and the Bush tax cuts that we investors have enjoyed for so long will be GONE FOR GOOD!
The increase in capital gains taxes will create a stock selling frenzy for investors to grab profits before taxes jump from 15% to 35%!
DOWNLOAD YOUR FREE COPY NOW
(But... what's in it for me??????)
Now that, thanks to that piece of advice, everyone is sitting safely on their cash, here comes the next word of wisdom:
If you're less leveraged, less affected by recessions, and have a longer horizon than the average, it makes sense to buy. If you're more leveraged, more affected by recession or have a shorter horizon, it might be the time to sell, even though you might be cashing out at the bottom. If you're about the same as everyone else, do nothing and relax. If you're wrong, at least you will have excellent company.
If you are none of the above, just go back to work, stupid!
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
In Forbes magazine this month, Vanguard founder John Bogle calculates the total amount of money that the "experts managing our assets" cost us is about $ 620 billion per year, and this number recurs every year !!
Why do we pay these people to "manage" our assets ? (Vanguard is a "no load" fund which invests without these "financial intermediaries").
Bogle calls them the "money shufflers and middlemen". They don't really add value, either. The money goes to:
- Legal and accounting services
- Financial advisers
- Bank trust departments
Bogle calculates that these "croupiers" as he calls them, will cost "us" $ 4 trillion over the next 10 years. "Now think of the cumulative costs relative to the $ 9.5 trillion value of the U.S. stock market and the $ 30 trillion value of our bond market".
"Our obsession with these flawed markers of success (wealth), has, in turn, led to far too many young talent flooding into a field that inevitably subtracts value from society".
...policymakers have to recognize that, while Bretton Woods II is not the product of an international agreement, it is not a "free market" system that relies on floating currencies, either. Rather, it is sustained by specific national policies. The United States has acquiesced in large trade deficits--and their effect on the U.S. workforce--in exchange for foreign funding of our budget deficits. And Asia has accepted a lower standard of living in exchange for export-led growth and a lower risk of currency crises. http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=16872fed-798c-476b-a6c4-303923cd6388
SPIEGEL: You distinguish between the financial economy and the real economy. But isn't there a common cause behind the crisis -- namely, the fact that managers were too intent on maximizing short-term profits?
Wenning: As I see it, it's too simplistic to blame the current crisis on the supposed greed of executives. Look at the range of groups that invested in risky products: It starts with church organizations and ends with hedge funds. I believe that the pursuit of profit is an innate human trait. In fact, a little bit of "healthy" greed might also be useful and natural. It goads us and forces us to advance. http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,591282,00.html
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
You mean the Federal Government ?
But seriously, there is a case to be made that this was a government-caused (mostly) crisis. Fannie Mae was created in 1935 during FDR's "New Deal" and was a typical product of the New Deal (a public corporation, or government-owned entity that was underwriting loans but was given a pass and not really well regulated by Washington). The 1977 Community Reinvestment Act forced banks in the U.S. to lend to people with bad credit histories. Again, a government action. And the interest rates were set too loosely. Again, government. The private sector did have a hand in this, of course, but let's not pretend that government had no role. All of these actions by government took transparency out of they system (just as government does in almost everything it touches, making the clear costs and benefits murky and unclear).
Amity Schlaes, in her recent book on the "New Deal", "The Forgotten Man", shows how FDR's socialism prolonged the depression until 1940 and crowded out private investment on large "5-year plan-type" projects.
Obama is now in danger of repeating this mistake, especially if he "rescues" Detroit car companies, which is like throwing public money down a well.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch
FDR's socialism prolonged the depression until 1940 and crowded out private investment on large "5-year plan-type" projects.
Which raises a philosophical question: is it better to have a short, and devestating economic depression/recession, or a longer, but less severe, economic downturn? Another variant of how to pull a bandaid off your skin.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on November 21, 2008 7:37 AM How about an immediate recovery ?
Through prayer?
Joseph E. Stiglitz, Nobel Prize laureate in economics, reflects in the business daily Világgazdaság on the global economic crisis. "The world is sinking into an economic crisis that will probably be the worst in the past 25 years, perhaps even the worst since the Great Depression of 1929. In many respects this crisis was 'Made in America'. ... Those who even before the crisis had major trade deficits and high state debts will suffer more than others. States that haven't fully liberalised their capital and financial markets, like China, will be thankful that they didn't give in to pressure from the US Federal Reserve. ... The old institutions recognised the need for reform but they moved at a snail's pace. They did nothing to prevent the current crisis. Then there's the question of how effectively the response of these institutions will be. ... After the Great Depression it took 15 years and a World War for the world to start working as a team and dealing with the weaknesses of the global financial system that had contributed to the crisis. We can only hope that this time it won't take that long: In view of the deeply interwoven nature of the global economy the cost would simply be too high. ... It has become clear that the economic doctrines on which the current Bretton Woods institutions [the World Bank, International Monetary Fund] are based have failed not only in the developing countries, but also in the core countries of capitalism."
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Well, it will continue to be bad if they (government) continue to cover any transparency that there might be in the system as to who owns what. It seems like lack of transparency is to me the main issue (example: I am buying a securitized asset, but how do I know what it is worth ?). This is partly the fault of the private sector and banks who intentionally made such securities über-complex so that only they and their PhDs in math could understand them. And many of the most intelligent people in the world STILL don't understand them and what they are worth.
Another problem is "mark to market accounting", which is another rule that means that assets held show a lower value in accounting terms than they are really worth.
The notion that "people should be able to stay in their homes" is misleading. I rent an apartment, but I don't consider it "mine". A house is only "yours" if you can make the payments. The politicians talking this nonsense are just making things worse. In future, people will be more reluctant to sell someone a home if the government backs that person as saying that the house is "theirs", regardless of the ability to pay for it.
Keynesianism - the U.S. government now wants to use old, failed Keynesian "solutions" to solve this problem. The problem is, though, that these "solutions" of giving people more money and letting the economy grow "from the ground up" has been shown not to work. Many times, people sit on the money. That is what the "stimulus check" from Bush was about, by the way. The better solution would be a monetary solution of making the overall business climate better (lower taxes and regulations on business). This worked in 1982-83 to stimulate the biggest world economic expansion of all time, which literally brought 1 billion people out of abject poverty. Monetarism is not the problem, but the solution. When I hear Obama talk Keynesianism, I think, "uh oh".
And now they are taking it one step further and talking about FDR-era public works projects to inject money in the old-fashioned Keynesian way. The problem is, by the time such projects are done, the world is in a different situation, because they take so long. Read about the "Big Dig" in Boston some time and what a waste it was and how over-budget it was.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Originally written by John Bunch on November 21, 2008 6:59 PM I am buying a securitized asset, but how do I know what it is worth ?
Generally, in the world of speculators, you don't know. Look at these two pieces of news from the Warsaw Stock Exchange from the last couple of days:
1) Poland’s financial industry regulator on Friday informed the prosecutor’s office about a possible case of market manipulation involving a person acting in the name of JPMorgan Securities.
The complaint stems from the unusual end to trading on the Warsaw stock exchange on November 12. The market’s blue-chip WIG20 index had slumped by 9.1 per cent during the day, but minutes before the session’s close a series of buy orders worth 130m zlotys ($42m, €34m, £28m) were executed on all the companies making up the index, driving the WIG20 sharply upwards.
It ended the day down 4.93 per cent, and would have closed even higher had the exchange’s circuit breakers designed to dampen wild swings in prices not gone into effect.
2) Polish oil refiner Lotos denied Monday it is facing bankruptcy as it sought to calm investors unnerved by a Unicredit analyst report which said the company is likely to collapse.
Grupa Lotos SA, Poland's second-largest crude oil refiner, said the UniCredit recommendation, released Friday, to sell the company's stock was "entirely without foundation."
On Monday, shares fell 20 percent at the start of the trading session, but recovered to close down only 6 percent at 12.72 zlotys ($4.05), company spokesman Marcin Zachowicz said.
The Polish news agency PAP said the UniCredit report warned that Lotos has only about a 50 percent chance of surviving in its current form. UniCredit also reportedly slashed its target price for Lotos to zero from 25 zlotys ($8.08). http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-eu-poland-lotos,0,1458118.story
When you are in the market for shares and minutes before the closing bell someone throws on that market $42 million worth of purchase orders, how much are your target shares worth?
And when an analyst issues a report slashing its target price for certain oil stocks you own down to zero (!), how much are they worth?
I guess the answer has invariably been: Whatever people are ready to pay...
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
Christian Science Monitor reporting about Islamic Finance in Britain
The land of Adam Smith now teems with a vibrant Islamic banking sector, with even non-Muslims being lured by the model's promise of transparency and stability.
'No interest' gains interest with British Muslims
By Peter Ford| Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
By Ben Quinn | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor from the November 28, 2008 edition
London - Shabaz Bhatti is proud to be a devout Muslim – but his plans to remortgage the family home with one of Britain's new generation of Islamic banks isn't just about religion.
The 30-something driving instructor wants reliability, and believes Britain's growing Islamic finance sector offers this in a way that myriad traditional main street banks no longer do.
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Christian Science Monitor reporting about Islamic Finance in Britain
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on November 28, 2008 3:34 PM
The land of Adam Smith now teems with a vibrant Islamic banking sector, with even non-Muslims being lured by the model's promise of transparency and stability.
I suppose that it's still a willing buyer and willing seller basis. Adam Smith dealt with supply and demand. If there are potential profits to be made out of the Islmaic banking segment, I suppose the banks would consider coming out with the products especially with the Arabs filled up with oil money in recent years.
Anyway, I don't suppose the "administrative fee" would be the same for a 100K house and that of a 200K house?
Islamic principles aside (which I'm not interested in questioning), would there be added cost in the title transfer?
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
I don't think administrative fees are significant. The banker in the islamic principles is a business entity, a trader. One of its most used tools is Murabaha.
Simplified explanations: You need a loan to buy a car or a house. The bank buys it and then sells it to you. it makes profit out of material assests, not out of renting or leasing money itsef, since Islamic principles state that money does not produce money by itsef.
You need cash. the bank studies your refunding capacity (mainly the salary, it needs fixed guaranteed income). It may then buy stocks for you (you decide which ones) and it sells them to you. Once you have the stocks, you sell them immediately and you have cash. You pay back in comfortable monthly payments.
There are other tools of course used in Islamic finance, as Islamic insurance for example called Takaful.
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on November 28, 2008 7:08 PM
You need cash. the bank studies your refunding capacity (mainly the salary, it needs fixed guaranteed income). It may then buy stocks for you (you decide which ones) and it sells them to you. Once you have the stocks, you sell them immediately and you have cash. You pay back in comfortable monthly payments.
Shall I assume that the profit sharing ratio had been decided in advance as the asset had already changed hands so that the scheduled payments would not change in a falling interest rate environment (such as presently on a global basis)? Thus the borrower would not have the shceduled repayment reduced, just as not having the repayment increased in a rising interest rate environment?
Mother tongues: Arabic, French Posts: 2093 Joined: February 5, 2003 Location: Qatar
RE: Economy
Yes, once the profit sharing (division) has been established through a contract between the seller (bank) and the buyer (customer) it doesn't change. Exception: the client has very serious problems (death, bankruptcy), at that point Takaful (Islamic insurance, or exactly Islamic solidarity to be precise) arranges the situation.
BTW, you know who are the leaders of Islamic finance? Malaysians. Kuala Lumpur is probably the most important center for Islamic financial studies and research. There's an academy and many institutions among which IFSB (see website)
Mother tongue: English Joined: March 28, 2004 Location: Malaysia
RE: Economy
Originally written by Abdelouadoud El Omrani on November 29, 2008 11:09 AM BTW, you know who are the leaders of Islamic finance? Malaysians. Kuala Lumpur is probably the most important center for Islamic financial studies and research. There's an academy and many institutions among which IFSB (see website) Salaam
It's probably true that Malaysia is currently the leader in Islamic banking, at least in Asia. In recent years, Singapore just like many other countries had also jumped onto that bandwagon to help maintain its status as a global financial hub.
With all that oil money in the Middle East, don't you think that Dubai would emerge as the global Islamic Banking leader?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
Recession? What recession? It was the usual stampede...
U.S. ‘Black Friday’ Sales Rise 3%
Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. holiday retail sales increased 3 percent yesterday from a year earlier, the smallest gain for a “Black Friday” in three years....
Individuals may spend an average of $616 on holiday gifts this year, down 29 percent from a year earlier, according to a Gallup Inc. poll.
Retailers promoted “doorbuster” deals to attract customers yesterday, called Black Friday because it was said to be when retailers started to make their annual profit.
A worker was trampled by customers and killed yesterday at a Wal-Mart Stores Inc. location on New York’s Long Island, according to local police and the company. At least four shoppers were hurt at the store in Valley Stream, located about 13 miles (20 kilometers) from New York City, Nassau County Police said in a statement.
U.S. shoppers gathered by the hundreds waiting to enter malls on Black Friday, some of which threw open their doors as early as midnight. They were lined up for discounts of as much as 70 percent.
Kohl’s Corp., the fourth-largest U.S. department store, opened at 4 a.m. Wal-Mart and Macy’s Inc. had a 5 a.m. start. Gap opened some locations on Thanksgiving Day.
...my nominee is someone whose name may not be familiar to American audiences. He's Fred Goodwin, who until October served as CEO of the Royal Bank of Scotland. Goodwin (here's the Wikipedia entry about him) took the helm of RBS in 2000 and proceeded to turn it into an international powerhouse. Known as "Fred the Shred" for his willingness to cut costs—and jobs—he emerged as Britain's leading banker. He was even knighted in 2004 for services to banking. But the bank, which this summer was Britain's largest, is now neither Royal nor Scottish nor much of a bank. RBS's slogan is "Make it happen." A review of the record shows that Goodwin indeed made it happen. He aced every requirement for a hubristic CEO. ...
The result? RBS's stock (here's a two-year chart) has lost 91 percent of its value since March 2007 and retains value thanks only to massive government intervention. A job well-done, Sir Fred! ... http://www.slate.com/id/2205753/
When confronted with the news that Wal-Mart shoppers were so eager to take advantage of a Black Friday sale that they trampled an employee to death, most people are, quite naturally, appalled. My daughter, for example, was aghast: "What kind of country do we live in?" she asked, over and over again, unable to fully process the horror.
I have an answer to her query, but it is unlikely to satisfy her: ....
According to a new survey by Prince & Assoc., more than 80% of multimillionaires who had extra-marital lovers planned to cut back on their gifts and allowances. Still, only 12% of the multimillionaire cheaters said they plan to give up on their lovers altogether for financial reasons.
The Bush administration backed off proposed crackdowns on no-money-down, interest-only mortgages years before the economy collapsed, buckling to pressure from some of the same banks that have now failed. It ignored remarkably prescient warnings that foretold the financial meltdown, according to an Associated Press review of regulatory documents.
"Expect fallout, expect foreclosures, expect horror stories," California mortgage lender Paris Welch wrote to U.S. regulators in January 2006, about one year before the housing implosion cost her a job.
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
A revealing headline in Science Magazine ($$$): Humans aren't rational, as the recent economic crisis shows. So why should financial theories assume that they are?
Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland
RE: Economy
A case in point:
Iceland’s Meltdown
<script>
"All financial innovation involves … the creation of debt secured in greater or lesser adequacy by real assets,” wrote the economist John Kenneth Galbraith in 1993. And “all crises have involved debt that, in one fashion or another, has become dangerously out of scale in relation to the underlying means of payment.”
Iceland’s neophyte bankers no doubt wish they’d paid more attention to this warning.
Click the image above to view a larger version of this map.
Then in the bottom right-hand corner click on a (vanishing) icon that says "Expand to regular size"
But most bubbles are the product of more than just bad faith, or incompetence, or rank stupidity; the interaction of human psychology with a market economy practically ensures that they will form. In this sense, bubbles are perfectly rational—or at least they’re a rational and unavoidable by-product of capitalism (which, as Winston Churchill might have said, is the worst economic system on the planet except for all the others). Technology and circumstances change, but the human animal doesn’t. And markets are ultimately about people. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200812/blodget-wall-street
Mother tongues: Polish, English Posts: 2907 Joined: September 13, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Hi, Jacek. The financial theories are not rational. Nothing is rational.Nothing can work if it is blindly followed and exploited. Everything needs adjustement and variation, at least in my opinion. To feel the movement of the air.
Mother tongues: Polish, English Posts: 2907 Joined: September 13, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Perhaps something can reduce the wars, and the nonsensical character of certain things. I think if people believed more in themselves, rather than in ideologies, it could help to a certain extent, even if just a bit.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1752 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on December 12, 2008 7:00 PM
Perhaps something can reduce the wars, and the nonsensical character of certain things. I think if people believed more in themselves, rather than in ideologies, it could help to a certain extent, even if just a bit.
People do not need to believe more in themselves. Many people, particularly in the US, believe far too much in themselves and have overly-inflated views of their importance, intelligence and competence. Every kid in school is now taught that his ideas are just as valid as everyone else's. Well that just isn't true. Some ideas are sensible, and some are idiotic. They are not equally valid. We have a culture where morons go on talk radio and voice opinions on things they know nothing about. People certainly have a right to their opinions, but they don't have a right to have their opinions declared equally valid with all others. You may believe that 2+2=5 all you like, but it is not an equally valid mathematical idea to 2+2=4.
The offspring of this thinking is the sense of entitlement that the younger generation has. Twenty-somethings feel entitled to success, happiness, and other things, and become upset and indignant when they feel these things aren't forthcoming. We all have the right to pursue happiness and success, but we are not guaranteed these things, despite what kids are told nowadays at school - it simply is not true that you can be no matter what you want to be if you simply try hard enough. Life is unfair, and you don't get everything you want.
In short, more humility, not more concern with self, would help society a great deal.
Mother tongues: Polish, English Posts: 2907 Joined: September 13, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Originally written by David Kallans on December 13, 2008 8:47 AM
People do not need to believe more in themselves
What I meant, David, was that people should rely more on their common sense rather than believe that a certain theory or ideology can save them. One of the examples is the theory that a free market always works, no matter what.
Mother tongue: English Posts: 1807 Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States
RE: Economy
Disagree. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are about as socialist and "progressive" as you can get, and they are at the core of this crisis. My understanding is that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bought up and/or "backed" subprime mortgages, so that the mortgage companies could then go out and write even more mortgages. And Fannie Mae was created by FDR in the 1930s to provide mortgages to people who might not be able to afford them. This freed up the mortgage industry to write ever more bad mortgages, which created this bubble.
The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 fueled the subprime crisis. Again, at its core: "progressive".
Government action (low interest rates and nonsensical "mark-to-market" accounting standards, along with lax ratings agencies - all government actions and/or inactions facilitated this bubble and crisis). All of this by the government distorted the clarity of the picture and obscured the risk picture.
I don't want to say that "progressives" are to blame for this crisis, because in my opinion, the blame lies with classic social psychology and the "psychology of bubbles", which has existed from the start of time, or at least, from the start of financial markets. But it is just too much when "progressives" now say that they were on the right side, and fiscal conservatives and pro-free-marketers were the bad guys. The reality is, we all had a hand in this, and no one group is the bad guys, and no one group has all the answers. For every "greedy" finance guy, I can show you a politician who pressured banks in America to lend to subprime borrowers, out of "progressive" reasons, and that all fueled the bubble.