Having seen the documentary on the mating song of a particular whale, which is based on a similar system as 12-tone compositions, including rules of variations along musical grammar, I wonder about a number of things re: the above. (Humans vs. animals, that is.)

We are definitely the most adept species at miscommunication.

Maxi

Hello!

Interesting poll! I've voted "both" because language is a means of communication and at the same time, it offers a framework for us to be able to express our thoughts and ideas.  

Regards,

Marisa

Hi Maxi,

I agree with you there! Miscommunication is an almost solely human prerogative. What I meant regarding the difference between humans and other animals is the ability to communicate in conjunction with our self-awareness and our ability to think in time lines. In other words, to go against our direct instincts which are based on the 'safeguard the species'-principle. There are more examples of animals being able to communicate, think of bees, who can hum in distinct patterns recognisable for other bees, and convey messages relating to things important for bees, but I have yet to come across the first bee which doesn't sting when threatened, which for bees is a form of suicide (they normally die after stinging, I have been led to believe). This is an instinctive response. Compare that with people, who can show restraint (some better than others) and who can give up immediate benefits as food in order to gain more benefits at a later stage.

This is veering away from the subject of this poll but nevertheless a very interesting discussion point.

Some animals have shown themselves to be self-aware.  Self-restraint does exist in at least some animals.  It is possible that some animals think along time lines and that some humans don't.  The song of the whales is a complex melody built along a particular structure which must be remembered and improvised while keeping that structure, and that improvisation must then be sung in all "keys" (in a whale sense) without skipping any key - that being the principle of 12-tone composition (something I have not yet mastered).  The pod as a whole has been developing this musical line while being followed for over a decade so that the improvisation is now on a more complex structure than when they were first being followed.  This has elements at least of the language of music, which is a complex thing.

Dolphins can also communicate in a special way: http://www.beach-net.com/dolphins/communication.html

Marisa

Originally written by Theo Bernards on November 3, 2008 4:03 PM I am not sure if interacting with animals is the same as communicating with them ....

Apparently, there might be some examples of the latter in the Interspecies communication thread.

Here, I have voted for both...

Me too!

Anyway, Aria (an Alsatian) communicates in various ways: she 'snaps' her upper and lower jaw very gently in my face: supposedly she's being affectionate. When I do the same to her, she repeats the movement while looking very calm and loving. 

Whenever I let her out in the garden, she does an interesting parameter check: she runs alongside the fence the whole way 'round. With raised hackles and a stiff 'beware' posture, she barks as loud as she can. When she has finished the round, she stops and looks at me. I reinforce this particular communication by loudly approving. Very good!

She smacks her lips loudly when I get annoyed at her. Supposedly it's a way to pacify members of the tribe: calm down, Nanna!

She does the smacking lip thing with her ears pulled way back when I get very wired about the mud she drags in from the by now always wet and muddy garden. To reassure her that she has managed to calm down the alpha, I step away from her and then smack my lips in return: she relaxes, and allows me to clean her huge paws without any fuss.

Nanna 

I basically think that languages are like music: like the ancient rhythm of the drum talking to you in different forms.

Liliana

That's music to my ears.  

I think He thought it was Art.