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Nanna Mercer |
Last Activity November 18, 2008 12:05 PM 45 replies, 3468 viewings |
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| Printer friendly | Sandbox | Help ![]() |
| Posted: February 22, 2008 3:55 AM | Post #139189—in reply to #139182 | |||||||
Nanna Mercer![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongues: English, Danish Posts: 7152 Joined: February 12, 2005 Location: Denmark | Thank you, Elena, for yet another sign of life "If I were linguistic emperor," says Michael Tomasky, who recently took over as editor of the unabashedly liberal The American Prospect, "not only would semicolons be mandatory, but we'd all be writing like [18th-century Scottish historian Thomas] Carlyle: massive 130-word sentences that were mad concatenations of em dashes, colons, semicolons, parentheticals, asides; reading one of those Carlyle sentences can sweep me along in its mighty wake and make me feel as if I'm on some sort of drug. What writing today does that? Some, maybe even a lot, in the realm of literature; but not much in non-fiction, alas." […] On page 109 of Eats, Shoots & Leaves, Truss explained that she harbors little appreciation for those who "denounce" semicolons: But how much notice should we take of those pompous sillies who denounce the semicolon? I say, none at all. I say they are just show-offs. And I say it's wonderful that when Umberto Eco was congratulated by an academic reader for using no semicolons in The Name of the Rose (1983) he cheerfully explained (so the apocryphal story goes) that the machine he typed The Name of the Rose on simply didn't have a semicolon, so it was slightly unwise of this earnest chap to make too much of it. " …. http://mediamatters.org/items/200511220013 Nanna | |||||||
| Posted: February 22, 2008 4:06 AM | Post #139191—in reply to #139177 | |||||||
Nanna Mercer![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongues: English, Danish Posts: 7152 Joined: February 12, 2005 Location: Denmark | How to avoid linguistic emperors and pompous sillies: The semicolon and other tricky punctuations explained with easy to understand examples. Please see: http://www.class.uidaho.edu/adv_tech_wrt/resources/sentence_style/semicolons.htm
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| Posted: April 3, 2008 9:19 AM | Post #142467—in reply to #139182 | |||||||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland |
See also Post #135200 on the comma war. * * * In her description of the translation process, Lucja Biel (http://accurapid.com/journal/44freelancer.htm) points out that as part of the quality assurance the translator shouldRemove any double spaces from her translation. Right. However, there are still organizations, believe it or not, that use double spacing after a period (full stop to Brits). Originally, those who learned typing on typewriters, at least in the United States, were taught to use two spaces after a sentence-ending period for a better readability, to help people distinguish between sentence-ending periods and abbreviation-ending periods, etc. With word processors these considerations are gone, however see a discussion of this at http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68: For all of you haters of the double-space after a full-stop, I hate to tell you that I am writing a style guide for my organization that will include it as a rule. We create very formal documents. To ensure the documents are as intelligible as possible, we will use two spaces. I do not care what font you use. Laziness is acceptable in today's culture many places, but I will not allow it in the documents I edit. We also use 1-inch margins instead of the MS Word default of 1.25 inches because we need to fit as much information into as little space as possible while not neglecting our need to be as succinct as possible. Also: "Because it is increasingly common for papers and manuscripts to be prepared with a single space after all punctuation marks, this spacing is shown in the examples in the MLA Handbook and the MLA Style Manual. As a practical matter, however, there is nothing wrong with using two spaces after concluding punctuation marks unless an instructor or editor requests that you do otherwise." http://www.mla.org/style/style_faq/style_faq3 (via http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/80607) Otherwise, like Lucja, I only find recommendations on the Web for the use of a single space after all punctuation marks, e.g.: "Double spaces date back to the days of typewriters, when all characters were allotted the same amount of space. Computerized typesetting adjusts the spacing for a good fit. Extra spaces create gaps and look unprofessional." http://www.utexas.edu/visualguidelines/punctuation.html Jacek | |||||||
| Posted: June 25, 2008 5:07 AM | Post #149380—in reply to #139177 | |||||||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | Back to Has modern life killed the semicolon? http://www.slate.com/id/2194087/ | |||||||
| Posted: June 25, 2008 5:39 AM | Post #149384—in reply to #142467 | |||||||
Nanna Mercer![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongues: English, Danish Posts: 7152 Joined: February 12, 2005 Location: Denmark |
Yes, and what do you do when the source has double spacing? I usually remove the double spacing, but I always have an uneasy feeling that I am in the wrong. Nanna [Edited by Nanna Mercer on June 25, 2008 5:41 AM] | |||||||
| Posted: June 25, 2008 12:31 PM | Post #149420—in reply to #98316 | |||||||
Jonathan Downie![]() Extreme Veteran ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 504 Joined: March 9, 2008 Location: United Kingdom | I always double space. If only because it was how I was taught and I have seen no real push to the contrary. Mind you, I add in punctuation after letter closes (Kind regards, yours sincerely, etc) so I may be just old-fashioned. | |||||||
| Posted: July 19, 2008 7:17 AM | Post #151071—in reply to #142467 | |||||||
| Janus Jacquet Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: Danish Posts: 236 Joined: May 7, 2004 Location: Denmark |
Interesting that someone who is obviously very much against ‘laziness’ would nonetheless write a style guide that codifies what is originally itself a sign of laziness: the double-space. Were he interested in maintaining optimal intelligibility and readability in his organisation’s “very formal documents”, he should codify the usage of the character the double-space is a lazy typewriter workaround for: the em space. Then again, he does seem to refer to Microsoft Word as a guiding line or standard for page layout, so I’d say his blather can be dismissed fairly easily.
Link inserted by the moderator [Edited by Nanna Mercer on July 19, 2008 7:42 AM] | |||||||
| Posted: July 19, 2008 7:47 AM | Post #151072—in reply to #151071 | |||||||
Jeff Allen![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 1534 Joined: December 23, 2004 Location: France | Thanks Nanna for inserting that link. I saw it at the same time. It points to a statement by a (Scott | Aug-7-07 1:28PM) in the discussion at http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=68:
It is certainly important for people who use the quote feature here on TC to check the post they are quoting and make sure that internal citations and references are not deleted. Jeff
[Edited by Jeff Allen on July 19, 2008 7:55 AM] | |||||||
| Posted: July 19, 2008 8:30 AM | Post #151077—in reply to #98316 | |||||||
| Janus Jacquet Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: Danish Posts: 236 Joined: May 7, 2004 Location: Denmark | My apologies. In my eager to make the quoted message shorter, I must accidentally have chopped off a line too many—and then my post appeared at the top of a new page, further breaking whatever continuity there was! | |||||||
| Posted: July 19, 2008 9:09 AM | Post #151081—in reply to #151071 | |||||||
David Kallans![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 1200 Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States |
Even assuming that the double-space developed as a substitute for the em space (source?), I don't see why such a development is necessarily a "lazy" one. Instead, it could be seen as a matter of efficiency. Was the development of moveable type a lazy workaround for copying books by hand? Regardless of its historical origins, I think the double space serves a valuable function, as it helps to clearly demarcate sentences, which theoretically are self-contained, if inter-related, ideas. | |||||||
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