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Becky Barath, Nanna Mercer |
Last Activity January 7, 2009 3:08 PM 757 replies, 33079 viewings |
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| Printer friendly | Sandbox | Help ![]() |
| Posted: November 19, 2008 3:54 AM | Post #162246—in reply to #162184 | ||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland |
That lingering resentment should help guarantee his cooperation. "It is the iron law of reciprocity. He will remember and help those who helped him at a critical time in the future," says James Thurber, director of American University's Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies. "It is politically smart. The president and the Democrats will need him in the future. It is part of building bipartisanship and political capital." http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1860396,00.html We had a neat word in Polish for a reshuffling of those in office under communism: karuzela. | ||
| Posted: November 19, 2008 8:23 AM | Post #162288—in reply to #162240 | ||
David Kallans![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 1360 Online Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States |
That difference, of course, being one that certain countries chose to create as a tactical tool. Hamas and Hezbollah never agreed that there would be a distinction between civilian and military targets. One side cannot simply unilaterally create rules in their favor and then cry foul when their opponent does not abide by them. Moreover, western states, including the United States, quite readily jettison their supposed allergy to deliberately targeting civilians when they see it as an advantageous. The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the fire-bombing of Dresden (of which you, as a student of WW II and former resident of Germany must be aware) were deliberate attacks on civilian populations on a scale the world has never seen. The US simply has too much blood on its hands to be heard to complain on this topic. As others have said, all is fair in love, and war. "Rules" are simply another tactic. | ||
| Posted: November 19, 2008 8:27 AM | Post #162289—in reply to #162246 | ||
David Kallans![]() Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 1360 Online Joined: April 13, 2007 Location: United States |
The idea of "building bipartisanship" is compelte nonsense. We have had nothing but bipartisanship for the past eight years, with the Democrats lining up in lock-step on every issue of consequence with the Bush administration. What America wants is change, which by defintion cannot be done through bipartisanship. The Democrats won an election, and they should exercise that power regardless of what Republicans think. That is certainly how Bush and company approached government. But I am not surprised by this, as I have thought all along that Obama is fundamentally a centrist who will be a great disappointment to the left. | ||
| Posted: November 26, 2008 9:33 PM | Post #163154—in reply to #162289 | ||
Yaotl Altan![]() Elite Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongues: Spanish, Italian Posts: 686 Joined: September 8, 2005 Location: Mexico (removed) |
Right. Look about these full-time zionists: -Rahm Emanuel. -Robert Rubin -Hillary Clinton
Is Obama thinking at James Petras? I think NO. Obama is not a centrist, I think he is a rightist. | ||
| Posted: December 1, 2008 7:35 AM | Post #163408—in reply to #163154 | ||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | Roger Cohen: Olmert to Obama: Think again Imagine Ehud Olmert, the outgoing Israeli prime minister, saying this to Barack Obama: "The United States has been wrong to write Israel a blank check every year; wrong to turn a blind eye to the settlements in the West Bank; wrong not to be more explicit about the need to divide Jerusalem; wrong to equip us with weaponry so sophisticated we now believe military might is the answer to all our problems; and wrong in not helping us reach out to Syria. Your prospective secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, said during the campaign that 'The United States stands with Israel, now and forever.' Well, that's not good enough. You need to stand against us sometimes so we can avoid the curse of eternal militarism." Perhaps that seems unimaginable. But Olmert has already said something close to this. In a frank September interview with the Israeli daily, Yedioth Ahronoth, reprinted this month by The New York Review of Books*, the Israeli leader chose to exit with a mea culpa for his country's policies. Those policies have been encouraged by the Bush administration, whose war on terror was embraced by the Israeli government as a means to frame Israel's confrontation with the Palestinians as part of the same struggle. No matter that Al Qaeda and the Palestinian national movement are distinct. The facile conflation got Bush in lock step with whatever Israel did. So, by saying Israel has been wrong, Olmert was also saying the United States has been wrong, even if he never mentioned America. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/30/opinion/edcohen.php ---- * 'The Time Has Come to Say These Things' by Ehud Olmert [Edited by Jacek Krankowski on December 1, 2008 7:37 AM] | ||
| Posted: January 7, 2009 7:25 AM | Post #166350—in reply to #163408 | ||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland | An excerpt from http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2009/01/06/gaza_war/index.html?source=newsletter America's support of the Gaza attack proves once again that our mythical image of Israel has blinded us to its faults -- a myopia with devastating consequences for both countries. Much of the rest of the world is outraged by Israel's assault on Gaza. But the United States -- the beacon of democracy, the champion of freedom, a nation founded on revolutionary anti-colonialism -- is applauding it. The Bush administration has placed the onus for the Israeli assault entirely upon Hamas, and blocked a cease-fire proposal in the U.N. Security Council to give Israel more time to crush its foe. Congress -- Democrats and Republicans alike -- is almost unanimously behind Israel's war. This, despite the fact that polls show that American citizens are closely divided on whether Israel should have attacked Gaza. As my Salon colleague Glenn Greenwald has noted, there is no other issue in which "citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical lockstep positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice." ... After five years of George W. Bush's "war on terror," a war whose ideology and methods followed Israel's militarist approach to the letter, and which has failed in every conceivable way, America has still not learned that there are no military solutions in the Middle East. America is backing Israel's assault despite the fact that it is seriously injurious to our national interests, and ultimately to Israel's as well. Israel's actions will not make it safer, and in the long run could endanger its very existence. But Israel, surrounded by a sea of enemies, has far more reason to cling to its belief in militarism than America does. Why does America give Israel a blank check to do what it wants, even when its actions are so manifestly contrary to our self-interest? Because we hold Israel to a different standard than other states. We follow what we might call "the Israel rules." In their groundbreaking 2006 book, historians John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt popularized the term "The Israel lobby." The term is useful as far as it goes, and applies accurately to powerful lobbies like AIPAC. But as one of the more perceptive commentators on Middle Eastern affairs, Time's Tony Karon, noted in his Rootless Cosmopolitan blog, the term is insufficiently dialectical -- that is, it fails to capture the way Americans have internalized received opinions about Israel. "The Israel rules," on the other hand, avoids imputing coercive power solely to an entity or group of entities, and highlights the fact that many of the constraints that govern discussions of Israel are self-generated. "Pro-Israel" commentators -- I use the scare quotes because many of them are Likudnik hawks whose policies are, in fact, harmful to Israel -- argue that Americans have always felt an affinity for Israel because it is a plucky, embattled democracy, a national soul mate. While there is a lot of sentimental "land without a people" nonsense in this argument, it is not entirely devoid of truth. There is much to admire in the astonishing self-creation of the Jewish state. Had it not been for the inconvenient presence of an indigenous people, it would have been cause for unalloyed celebration. And this feeling of kinship is immeasurably strengthened and sanctified by the most potent historical fact behind the special status America has accorded Israel: the Holocaust. Because Israel came into existence in the shadow of the Holocaust, and because it was immediately attacked by Arab states bent on destroying it, it has become an eternal victim in America's eyes. The historical truths of Israel's creation, above all the fact of Palestinian dispossession, simply cannot compete with the tragic, beautiful myth of an embattled people, the survivors of one of the worst genocides in human history, returning to live in their historic homeland. The enduring power of this myth is understandable. The idea that history's "ultimate victims," as the late Palestinian-American scholar Edward Said sympathetically called the Jews, created their own state by expelling its native inhabitants, is appalling. It seems almost cosmically wrong: A story this dark should not, cannot, close without a happy ending. That is the emotional and psychological nut. Throw in geo-strategic reasons (the U.S. embraced Israel as a Cold War bulwark against Soviet expansion), a powerful domestic lobby, and the singular ineptitude of the Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular, and you have the ingredients for an enduring myth. When other states refuse to make just compromises and insist on smashing their enemies into submission, we call them rogue states. When Israel does it, it is fighting off an eternal Holocaust, and that gives it carte blanche to do whatever it wants. Never mind the fact that the Palestinians do not pose an existential threat to Israel, and that over the last eight years between 200 and 300 Palestinians have been killed for every Israeli. As the occupation grinds into its seventh decade and Israel's enemies have become ever more fanatical, it becomes easier to fit them out with Hitler masks. The Palestinians have played the role of villains beautifully, making the myth seem increasingly plausible. ... | ||
| Posted: January 7, 2009 9:31 AM | Post #166361—in reply to #166350 | ||
John Bunch![]() Elite Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 680 Online Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States |
So what would you have Israel do, Jacek ? If the people of Gaza freely voted for Hamas, and now Hamas has chosen to lob bombs - built by Iran and provided by Iran - to Hamas, into Israel, killing children, what do you think that Israel should do ? I personally do not give Israel a "blank check". I am very critical for instance of the settlement policy in the West Bank. (and let's just remember, when you say that half of Americans are against what Israel is doing: can half of Americans even find Israel on a world map ? I have my doubts there...). The truth is that Iran is behind this all: they are the instigators. That is one reason that the Arab rulers in the region are not more against the Israeli actions (they fear Iran more than they fear Israel). Iran is active all over the region, and is behind this all. You mentioned negotiation with Syria. And yet, Syria continues to base terrorist groups in Damaskus, such as Hamas, and send out killers into other countries. The truth is that this small, democratic Israel, where women have full rights and where the economy is blooming and prospering, is surrounded by a group of countries and peoples, far less democratic, and willing to vote in the killers like Hamas. So my sympathy for them is also limited, to put it mildly (remember the celebrations in the "Palestinian territories" on Sep.11, 2001 ? I will never forget them... Take a look at state media in the Arab world sometime and their view of Israel. It creates the hatred. Children are taught that the highest honor is to die a martyr for Islam. The Saudis, far from breaking off even a tiny part of their vast oil wealth to help the people in Gaza (which Israel wanted), let their "brothers" live in slums so that they don't lose their hate for Israel and the West. BTW, Hamas recently brought back crucifixion, as part of Sharia law, in Gaza. ... but hey, I forget, it is all Israel's fault, right ? It is naive in the extreme to think that this conflict is about land. It is about religion. The hatred for the so-called "Zionist Entity" is due to the fact that the Israelis are not Islamic, and that creates the hate, not land issues. Please read Samuel Huntington's work on the clash of civilizations sometime, if you haven't already. As P.J.O'Rourke once put it: "The Arabs are enraged that the Israelis stubbornly insist on existing".
[Edited by John Bunch on January 7, 2009 9:40 AM] | ||
| Posted: January 7, 2009 9:54 AM | Post #166363—in reply to #166361 | ||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland |
I would start with what was proposed years ago: a two-nation state and return of the occupied land. If you say it's too late, it's the problem of the politicians who made it be too late and should be [...], well, penalized accordingly. (The same with Afghanistan, BTW, for which I would [...] the politicians accordingly.) | ||
| Posted: January 7, 2009 10:15 AM | Post #166367—in reply to #166363 | ||
John Bunch![]() Elite Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Mother tongue: English Posts: 680 Online Joined: February 1, 2008 Location: United States |
My understanding is that under the Oslo Accords, Israel was willing to give up 97 % of "the Territories" (Gaza and the West Bank), in exchange for peace. But then - and this is my understanding - PLO leader Arafat rejected it. Given now that Hamas and Hezbollah can use advanced rockets to hit Israel from increasing distance, what chance do you think that Israel will now revisit this, and allow Hamas to be located within firing range of schools and nuclear reactors ? Do you think that that is likely ? Jacek, please remember that Hama's stated goal is the total destruction of Israel, not some kind of land redistribution. It is a very totalitarian movement that is not afraid of death, either. And pardon me for saying, but if you elect Hamas and then they fire on your neighbor, don't scream when that neighbor shoots back. I think that that kind of logic might be understandable in the Mideast. I really reject this notion that the source of all problems lie in the West and with western politicians. People outside the West are also human beings capable of good and evil and bad. They are not just mere automatons who "respond" to things that the U.S. and Israel do. It is also my belief that the Arab and Iranian leaders use Israel to deflect any and all internal criticisms from themselves. Without the Israeli "enemy", where would they be ? They would have to actually explain why their state-run, family-controlled kleptocracies don't function well, and the crops don't come in. Without the "Zionist Entity", who could they blame for their own failings. For that reason and others, this conflict will not end, because they simply don't want it to.
[Edited by John Bunch on January 7, 2009 10:21 AM] | ||
| Posted: January 7, 2009 10:23 AM | Post #166369—in reply to #166367 | ||
Jacek Krankowski![]() Mother tongue: Polish Joined: February 18, 2003 Location: Poland |
I don't know, John. I just heard that while 'being willing' Israel was at the same time continuing with its policy of settlements on the occupied territories back then. Don't ask me now how to clean the mess, please. I knew from the start (see my 2003 posts) how not to start the mess in Iraq, for example, and had you asked me, a teenager in 1967, how not to esclate the ME mess then, I would have told you. So before they start bombing next time, have them ask me beforhand, not afterwards, and I will be happy to reply. Jacek | ||
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