Dear Everybody,

I read every single posts and I'm still full of doubts 

I have one problem : I have one single client at the moment  that is sufficient to make a living with it.

Here is what I do : I translate web page contents.I work online with a corporate tool designed by the client himself.It is a very simple internet page with on the left part of the screen the source language (Spanish) and on the right part of the screen the target language (French).So there I go , I type , correct and it goes live on their website.

Anyway... Because what I'm currently doing is pretty repetitive (program descriptions) , I have the feeling that a CAT tool could be quite handy for me.

But my problem is that I've once tried Trados and I've been disgusted and amazed by the "non user friendliness" of this program.

So I'd like to know if I could apply a CAT Tool to my work and to which extend and how considering I work online?

And I also wonder if I should try again with Trados or maybe try a different one like Deja vù or WordFast or else , and how is it possible to learn how to use Trados because if so many people use it ,it can´t be so difficult...

Thanks  for you time.

JB

Originally written by Jean-Baptiste Bazot on February 20, 2009 5:32 PM   I read every single posts and I'm still full of doubts

Jean-Baptiste, this is just one thread of many different threads related to Translation Memory tools within this forum on CAT + other software for Translators which address this and similar questions. 

You are focused on website/web site translation, so you should rather do a search in this same forum (CAT + other software) on a key word like "web" (I mention web just because the term website and web site both exist, but you won't find the hits on web site if you search on website).  I searched on "web" in this forum (with a search covering all the way over time). go to (http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/MegaBBS/search/query.asp), type the key word without quote in the key word field, and make sure to change the Date limit pull down to a timeframe longer than 30 days. This gives a number of very relevant threads for you, such as:

RE: website software translation

definition of Translation Management System (TMS)

RE: CAT tools for websites translation

RE: software for creating a website in different languages

RE: Software : Dynamic websites translation

RE: HTM & HTML with Trados

RE: Which programme is the most useful in translation??

RE: Why do I need translation tools?

RE: What is the most convenient way to count the words of any website?

Originally written by Jean-Baptiste Bazot on February 20, 2009 5:32 PM I have one problem : I have one single client at the moment  that is sufficient to make a living with it. Here is what I do : I translate web page contents.I work online with a corporate tool designed by the client himself.It is a very simple internet page with on the left part of the screen the source language (Spanish) and on the right part of the screen the target language (French).So there I go , I type , correct and it goes live on their website. Anyway... Because what I'm currently doing is pretty repetitive (program descriptions) , I have the feeling that a CAT tool could be quite handy for me. But my problem is that I've once tried Trados and I've been disgusted and amazed by the "non user friendliness" of this program. So I'd like to know if I could apply a CAT Tool to my work and to which extend and how considering I work online? And I also wonder if I should try again with Trados or maybe try a different one like Deja vù or WordFast or else , and how is it possible to learn how to use Trados because if so many people use it ,it can´t be so difficult...

Based on the very general information you have provided, a Translation Memory tool would help you very much.

However......

You have also explained that the customer has created their own homemade website translation portal, and like many of those that I have seen created by customers who know nothing about translation. It sounds obvious to me that they have not integrated anything for consistency and reuse (language spell checker for each language, terminology look up tool, translation memory recall of existing segments, etc).  It is very likely that there is no way for you to see previous translations and to be consistent with them.  This type of implementation is often the cause of much debate over translations from different translators appearing in same published page, but none of them being able to see the translated segments of each other.   It is not worth being blamed for inconsistent source and translated texts, and translations by others with mispellings or errors which are displayed alongside your own translated segments on the same final page.   And not being able to access your previous nor the translations done by others, means that this will lead to inconsistent translations overall.

I remember a case like this with a very high volume of content and I asked for an export from their database.  It took a bit of negotiation to get it, and I quickly discovered that it was full of inconsistencies. The content was very repetitive.  I did searches on basic terms and found  hundreds of examples of one spelling variant versus hundreds of a different spelling variant of the same word. There were spelling errors everywhere.  The translators were just expected to view the web pages and type in their translated segments without any reference to very, very similar texts that would appear on previous pages.   I pointed all of this out to the customer, and how it would result in inconsistency, and that there are tools that could be set up to work directly with their database and in the same format that they could export and import in.  Their IT person agreed with me , but others kept talking about wanting quality, but would not consider an implementation to improve quality overall.  The reality in the end is that they just wanted "translated sentences" but they didn't want to consider all of related issues (consistency in terminology, abbreviations, standardization of spelling variants and abbreviations, etc) which would be very important to produce an overall set of excellent quality content for all of the languages.  And it would have been very possible to link their databases and content publication process (for source and target) to a translation management system and any of several translation memory tools. I have seen many of such examples, and it requires time upfront to describe a translation workflow process with them.

This is why it is always important to get access to the source content in source format.  In your case, you would need to ask a lot of questions about the source format of the content (source and target), the repository of the content, the format of the displayed content (such as XML being converted to HTML), etc. 

If they won't give you the source format, then if would mean having to use alternate ways (accessing pages of the published content, web page scraping, removing lots of non-translated tagged content, etc). If you are not experienced in this type of engineering work, then you will be going down a path you won't have the skills to deal with it.

My experience is that handling these types of situations requires knowing a lot about how these environments are set up, and what types of options are available to make it workable for you.  

Jeff

Hi!

Many thanks for your detailed answer Jeff, the more I read you in lots of threads the more I think you are the TC guru here. 

I now better understand what should be my approach regarding my issue.

I think you're dead right when you say that the best thing for me should be to ask my client an export of the database (even though I can already hear them saying it´s too complicated even if it´s not) , because I've browsed all the links you've provided and as far as I understood , there are no perfect tool really designed to perform what I need online.

So definitely , the best thing would be an export of the database to any type of file/extension that next could be used with any CAT tools.

Much easier than trying to find something suitable and efficient online.

To be honnest , I really love computers and i've worked in I.T ,I've once tried to install Trados ,and jeesus .... I couldn´t believe how unfriendly and difficult to use this software is .It´s simple , I´ve installed it twice , and I've uninstalled pretty quickly twice.I was unable to use it.

So yesterday I've downloaded and installed the only free "serious" CAT tool that seems to exist (according to what I read in TC forum) : OmegaT.

I haven't uninstalled it yet , so I'm getting better.It seems to be abit easier to deal with than Trados,but it´s far from being user friendly,but I'll work on it to see what I can do with , because I'm certainly not ready to pay for a CAT tool license yet (untill I haven't figured out how to use it and fully been amazed of its benefits!).

Finally , I really wonder if CAT tools editors have some translators collaborating with the developers...I can imagine people who are not really used to computers trying to use for example Trados for the 1st time .... 

Many thanks Jeff

Originally written by Olly Pekelharing on October 27, 2008 7:57 AM Hullo all, Continuing with this discussion, how about Wordfast vs. Trados? I ask this because a large agency with whom I work has recently switched to Wordfast to cut costs and recommends that freelancers do the same. It costs a fraction of Trados and what I've seen of it it works in much the same way as Trados. But is it as good (or as bad)? What do the agencies think of it? (Do you get the same 'status' as a Trados-user?) I'm interested in any comments on this subject. My apologies if this discusssion is already being (or been) held elsewhere in the forum. I couldn't find it. Greetings, Olly

Hi Olly,

Did you get Wordfast or Trados in the end? I have just been given a 200,000-word project and a CAT tool may be required for consistent terminology. Trados is prohibitively expensive, whereas Wordfast seems like a much cheaper option.

Originally written by Will Kelly on November 3, 2009 3:30 PM I have just been given a 200,000-word project and a CAT tool may be required for consistent terminology. Trados is prohibitively expensive, whereas Wordfast seems like a much cheaper option.

The right time to start using a CAT tool is 3 - 6 months before you are given that 200,000-word project.

No CAT tool is going to give you consistent terminology on its own, the work you put in compiling and maintaining the glossaries and the translation memory is the main component. When you start off on that 200,000-word job, your TM will be empty and just as empty will probably be your glossaries unless you have some ready-made ones on hand.

Expect a marked drop in productivity for the first month or two ("learning curve") and you should include it in your detailed plan. You do have a plan, I hope? Starting out on a 200,000-word job without a plan is a sure recipe for trouble.

If you decide to use Wordfast, the yahoo! Wordfast self-help group is invaluable.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wordfast/

The service provided by almost all CAT tool peddlers is not worth the phone call, self-help from fellow sufferers is the only way to go.

Derek

Will...

So, you're thinking of joining the big league...

I was encouraged to purchase Trados about five years ago by an agency that gave me a lot of work (and also arranged quite a large discount). After three years or so, I switched to MemoQ, which is now my CAT tool of choice.

Without doubt, the people at Kilgray (you can find details of MemoQ at www.kilgray.com) are the exception in customer responsiveness. If you contact them, you can expect a reply within the hour. And there is also a yahoo! group which you can consult with problems.

One thing you should ask yourself is whether you can build up a TM quickly. MemoQ has an extremely good alignment tool, which allows you to add the source and target documents of past projects and save them in a TM. If you have done previous translations in the field of the 200,000 word job, you can leverage those translations to give you at least something in your TM. Also, adding terminology on the fly is extremely easy with MemoQ - just highlight the word in the source and its translation in the target, press control Q - and the term is added to your term base. You can also use TMs created in other tools and import them in .tmx format. And you can also export your finished translation as a Trados-compatible bilingual document.

So please, before you make a final decision, check out MemoQ. You can download the full version and use it on trial for a month. By then you should know whether it is the right CAT tool for you.

And the learning curve? I found it easy and very intuitive. I think you would too.

Jonathan

Originally written by Jonathan Ellis on November 3, 2009 5:14 PM Also, adding terminology on the fly is extremely easy with MemoQ - just highlight the word in the source and its translation in the target, press control Q - and the term is added to your term base.

I found that the down side to adding terminology on-the-fly is that it does not guarantee consistency and the asker gave consistency of terminology as the main reason for using a CAT tool on this job. I would not expect that the 200,000 words are all on precisely the same subject - the complete work is presumably divided into chapters. If it was my job then I would consider tackling it chapter by chapter, researching the terminology for each chapter in advance, maybe even breaking down the terminology into several separate glossaries. Wordfast allows three separate glossaries to be used simultaneously.

I see from his profile that the asker is more of a translation coordinator than a translator himself and even has a complete team spread about the globe. If there are enough people in the team, I would consider nominating one or two of them to do the terminology research and supply the others with complete and provenly consistent glossaries. One of the advantages of Wordfast is its suitability for group work, enabling the use of a remote very large TM to which all members of the group have access.

Derek

Originally written by Will Kelly on November 3, 2009 10:30 AM I have just been given a 200,000-word project and a CAT tool may be required for consistent terminology. Trados is prohibitively expensive, whereas Wordfast seems like a much cheaper option.

Will, with a project of this size, even the most expensive CAT tool should pay off several times in much higher productivity. Besides, you can often buy these tools for less than the list price (special offers, group buys, etc.).

Hynek

Originally written by Jonathan Ellis on November 3, 2009 5:14 PM Also, adding terminology on the fly is extremely easy with MemoQ - just highlight the word in the source and its translation in the target, press control Q - and the term is added to your term base.

Originally written by Derek Thornton on November 3, 2009 7:43 PM I found that the down side to adding terminology on-the-fly is that it does not guarantee consistency and the asker gave consistency of terminology as the main reason for using a CAT tool on this job.

Exactly the reason why when I develop dictionaries/glossaries that I run statistical cross checks of the term and its parts across the entire set of content to look for spelling variants, related terms, and terminology extensions which can be made from different word parts.  For MT, this allows for very rapid terminology build-up, terminology standardization/harmonization in looking at it from both source and target perspectives, and with a good and accurate translation coverage for all relevant words and terminology throughout the overall translation job.

Jeff

PS: Geocities closed down, so all of my translation technology articles and case studies are now uploaded to my LinkedIn profile (http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffallen) as well listed up in my LinguistList profile (http://linguistlist.org/people/personal/get-personal-page2.cfm?PersonID=22622).

Originally written by Hynek Palatin on November 4, 2009 8:31 AM Originally written by Will Kelly on November 3, 2009 10:30 AM I have just been given a 200,000-word project and a CAT tool may be required for consistent terminology. Trados is prohibitively expensive, whereas Wordfast seems like a much cheaper option. Will, with a project of this size, even the most expensive CAT tool should pay off several times in much higher productivity. Besides, you can often buy these tools for less than the list price (special offers, group buys, etc.). Hynek

Well, actually the official Czech SDL distributor sells Trados licenses at prices that are lower than the SDL price. For instance SDL Trados Studio Freelance Plus (two activations) are sold at CZK 9,700 (about € 390), VAT included. More info here: http://www.tradosy.cz/index.php/cenik-freelance