Some coments on the HRC, from inside and outside Canada (this is from Wikipedia, and I will leave it up to the readers if this is deemed 'deep' enough to believe). Note: this also might be the first time that I have ever agreed with something said by Noam Chomsky:
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"The controversy regarding the HRC's practices comes from its enforcement of Section 13.1 of Canada's Human Rights Act, which states that it is discriminatory to communicate by phone or Internet any material "that is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt." Critics charge that the HRC adjudicators have limited legal training and poor investigatory resources and the result is that the power of section 13.1 is being abused for nuisance cases that would be rightly tossed out of a real court.[1]
Liberal MP Keith Martin has proposed a private member's bill in Parliament to rescind section 13.1 of the Canadian Human Rights Act, upon which federal HRC censorship cases are based.[2] Martin described the legal test of "likely to expose" as "a hole you could drive a Mack truck through," and said it is being applied by "rogue commissions where a small number of people [are] determining what Canadians can and can't say."[1]
Martin asserted that some of history's most important ideas "were originally deemed to be sacrilegious and certainly in opposition to conventional wisdom. Who's to say that a commission cannot rule those ideas out of order and penalize people for saying or thinking them?"[1]
Irwin Cotler, a Canadian human rights scholar and former minister of justice, floated (but did not endorse) the idea that section 13.1 cases should require the authorization of the Attorney-General, which is the requirement for criminal prosecutions for inciting violence or promoting hatred.[1]
Alan Borovoy, general counsel for the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, has also criticized Section 13.1. He cited an example of the book Hitler's Willing Executioners, which alleges the complicity of German civilians in the Holocaust, and said that the thesis is arguably "likely to expose" German people to contempt, and therefore be a violation of Section 13.1.[1]
Borovoy also noted that under Section 13.1, "Intent is not a requirement, and truth and reasonable belief in the truth is no defence."[1]
Linguist and analytic philosopher[3] Noam Chomsky has said about the section, "I think it's outrageous, like the comparable European laws. It's also pure hypocrisy. If it were applied the media and journals would be shut down. They don't expose current enemies of the state to hatred or contempt?"[4]
Gimtosios kalbos: anglų, vokiečių Įstojo 2003 m. rugsėjo 26 d. Šalis: Kanada
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in the West (Canada and France)
Perhaps an understanding of the Canadian people should precede a view of the Canadian people. But above all, a bit of sensitivity might be in order. You have just celebrated the birthday of your country. There were the usual "happy birthdays" and a bit of the feeling that the whole world celebrates this national holiday of yours. Normally I would have joined in my own good wishes. But this time round, you had previously chosen the day of my country's birthday portray it in a bad light. It wasn't even something new happening in the news. And nobody had been bombed, killed, maimed, jailed, hurt. Just an old bit of news don the day we were celebrating our country's birthday.
You have July 4. We have July 1. On July 4 you have fireworks, celebrate the birth of your country and happily receive the congratuations from the world. On July 1 it iwas our turn. We had fireworks, we celebrated, and then this here. Couldn't it have waited? On a personal level it was disappointing.
[Redagavo Maxi Schwarz-Bastami 2009 m. liepos 5 d. 07:32]
Originally written by John Bunch on July 2, 2009 2:34 PM If so, do the Kazachstanis have the right to sue Sacha Baron Cohen before the Human Rights Commission ? Does every group parodied in that movie have such a right, because he made fun of them and subjected them to ridicule ? And what about the "Brüno" movie ? Should it be banned in Canada ?
I still believe there is not enough freedom of speech in the US, although it is in my opinion the freest place I have known. I think people should be able to say absolutely anything they want: but they should also be allowed to sue anybody for slander, if they have legitimate reasons and can prove that something is a lie said with an intention to defame.
On this 4th of July weekend, a quote from Ben Franklin, on freedom:
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
BTW, I did not really mean to insult Canada. But I am sometimes amazed by Canadian attitudes. I guess this might go back to the fact that Canada was settled in part by Americans who supported the "wrong side" (Britain) in the U.S. Revolutionary War), and who thus have a different attitude than Americans. But I just am sometimes astonished by Canadian attitudes. For instance, an American would not accept waiting 14 months for a "universally covered" hip replacement operation, but Canadians seem to think that that is totally o.k. and fully normal. Also, we don't like the state telling us what we can say, but evidently, the Canadians think it is totally o.k.
I am fine with Canada having a "different way". I just hope that this does not result in effects for us Americans (Islamic terrorists coming down from their "refuge" in Canada, as happened in 2000, when they tried to blow up LAX in Los Angeles).
Gimtoji kalba lenkų Įstojo 2003 m. vasario 18 d. Šalis: Lenkija
(removed)
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in France
Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on July 5, 2009 2:10 PM
I still believe there is not enough freedom of speech in the US, although it is in my opinion the freest place I have known.
People somehow forget that the French are now also free to shout "Sarkozy, I can see you!" For whatever reason I cannot find anything in English about the fact that the French just released the teacher who had been arrested for that kind of lèse majesté.
L’homme qui avait crié «Sarkozy, je te vois» à des policiers effectuant un contrôle en gare Saint-Charles en février 2008 a été relaxé, vendredi, par le tribunal de police de Marseille. Le juge de proximité qui présidait le tribunal a estimé que le «tapage injurieux diurne troublant la tranquillité d’autrui» reproché à l’auteur des propos n’était pas constitué. Pour le juge, ces paroles lancées à une heure de pointe peuvent être assimilées à la «rumeur normale» de ce type d’endroit. http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/0101577807-relaxe-pour-le-je-te-vois
Gimtosios kalbos: anglų, danų Įstojo 2005 m. vasario 12 d. Šalis: Danija
RE: Freedom of speech, under attack in France
Originally written by Jacek K. on July 6, 2009 11:45 AM
People somehow forget that the French are now also free to shout "Sarkozy, I can see you!" For whatever reason I cannot find anything in English about the fact that the French just released the teacher who had been arrested for that kind of lèse majesté.
At your service... Your research is probably more sophisticated than mine
"Mocking President Sarkozy can land you in trouble. The French law is being deployed with vigour against citizens who take the President's name in vain.
The latest case is a 47-year-old philosophy teacher from Marseilles university who was tried in the city's police court today for shouting in a supposedly jocular way "Sarkozy, je te vois" ('Sarkozy, I can see you' -- using the familiar singular).
The prosecutor called for conviction and a 100 euro fine against Patrick X, the lecturer, for the quaintly defined offence of "disturbance of the peace with insults, during the daytime". The lecturer, who is witholding his surname from the media, has become a bit of a celebrity over the past couple of days. Recounting his misadventure on the radio, he said that he was walking through Saint Charles station, the Marseilles rail terminus, in the evening rush-hour and came across police officers who were aggressively checking the identity of two youths. To "lighten the atmosphere", he called out "Sarkozy I can see you" and the surrounding crowd burst into laughter. The police took offence and hustled him off to the station for booking.
It was an easy hit since the name Sarkozy is synonymous with law-and-order and our professor, though wearing a suit and tie at the time, is obviously one of those leftwingers who worry about "police repression". "It was an attempt to defuse the atmosphere, a teacher's technique to relax the mood," Patrick explained on France-Inter radio today. "People laughed a lot. The police must answer the question: 'does laughter disturb the peace ? Is laughter subversive ?'"
The prosecutor said Patrick's conduct was no laughing matter. The incident had lasted for five minutes, during which, the police calculated, he could have said "Sarkozy, I can see you" up to 62 times. …
Evidently, any comment in favor of Hamas or Hezbollah can get one banned from entering Canada, as this video shows (see link). Beware, members of Translators Cafe, criticism of Israel is evidently enough to get you defined - in Canada - as a "national security threat" (note: I find Galloway one of the most appalling and repugnant people currently talking about politics, but I have to actually side with him here). Watch for yourself:
BTW, the German leftist "god" Rosa Luxembourg once said "Freiheit ist immer die Freiheit der Andersdenkenden" (freedom means the freedom of those who you disagree with). There is a long tradition of this. If you agree with a certain person or statement, there is no reason to protect it as "free speech". It is only speech that we find offensive that needs protecting. So if someone states that he or she will not allow someone to speak, who they disagree with, in effect, they are saying that they do not believe in free speech.
There is a more insidious aspect to this. For instance, I dislike George Galloway and I think that it is true that he more or less supports those groups. But is it not better to invite him in and debate it ? Wouldn't it protect Canadians more to have him in and then confront him, in an open forum, such as the TV debate above ? I hardly think that banning his views makes one stronger against those views. Probably the opposite is the case.
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