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On a beau dire, c'est angoissant un enfant qui ne ressemble pas à ses parents.Gabrielle Poulin
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Ini adalah jajak pendapat lebih dari satu suara. Anda dapat memberi suara pada lebih dari satu unsur.
Verse or prose? Vote!
 
Following the discussion which started with Post #175215, I submit to you six translations of the Renaissance Sonnet 18 by Louise Labé, five of which are in verse and one in prose.

Whose verse do you like the best? Do you prefer verse or prose? You are allowed to vote for more than one option.

For the French original please refer to Post #175215, however in my opinion you can also appreciate English without speaking the SL.

Here are the six translations, as numbered in the original thread (Thank you, Nanna for putting them together! With the new editor it takes hours to copy and paste and fix and refix. Just adding sonnet numbers to the original post took me half an hour this morning because the post fell apart as a result):

1. Graham Dunstan Martin
 
2. James Kirkup
 
3. Peter Low
 
4. Annie Finch
 
5. Edith R. Farrell
 
6. Gerard P. Sharpling (prose)
 
 
(1) Version by Graham Dunstan Martin: http://server4.moody.cx/index.php?id=562
 
Kiss me again, kiss, kiss me again;
Give me the tastiest you have to give,
Pay me the lovingest you have to spend:
And I’ll return you four, hotter than live

Soals. Oh, are you sad ? There! I’ll ease
The pain with ten more kisses, honey-sweet,
And so kiss into happy kiss will melt,
We’ll pleasantly enjoy each other’s selves.

Then double life will to us both ensue:
You also live in me, as I in you.
So do not chide me for this play on words
Or keep me staid and stay-at-home, but make me
Go on that journey best of all preferred:
When out of myself, my dearest love, you take me.
-------
 
 
  
(2) Version by James Kirkup: http://colecizj.easyvserver.com/pflabbai.htm
 
Kiss me - O come on,
kiss! And yet another kiss!
        Give me one of your
smackers, the juiciest kind -
send me one of your hot jobs!
      
I'll give you in turn
four more fiery than fire.
        O, you're complaining?
I'll cure that ache, and give you
ten more, all sweeter than sweet.
 
     Mingling our happy
osculations thus, let us
       enjoy each other
in whatever fashion we
may find most agreeable...
 
        When each has gone his way
each lives on for his friend, and
    himself. - Love, let me
think up some new folly:
I'm still feeling so randy -
 
         living discreetly
I can't give myself any
            satisfaction, if
 
I don't get out now and start
 some further hanky-panky.
 
-------------------
 
(3Version by Peter Low:  http://colecizj.easyvserver.com/pfvb3718.htm
 
Kiss me, re-kiss me, kiss me again and more!
Give me a flavoursome delicious one,
give me an amorous ambitious one,
and I’ll give you a hot reply of four!

Oh, are you sad, let me relax you, please,
with ten sweet ones, kiss after honeyed kiss,
for by this means, the mingling of our bliss,
we’ll best enjoy each other at our ease.

Here is the double life lovers discover -
each lives in self and also in the other.
Permit me, love, to share a crazy thought:

I’m always sad when living self-contained;
my happiness can’t grow and be sustained
unless I take these risks and sally forth.
-------
 
 
 
Kiss me again, rekiss me, and then kiss
me again, with your richest, most succulent
kiss; then adore me with another kiss, meant
to steam out fourfold the very hottest hiss

from my love-hot coals. Do I hear you moaning? This
is my plan to soothe you: ten more kisses, sent
just for your pleasure. Then, both sweetly bent
on love, we'll enter joy through doubleness,

and we'll each have two loving lives to tend:
one in our single self, one in our friend.
I'll tell you something honest now, my love:

it's very bad for me to live apart.
There's no way I can have a happy heart
without some place outside myself to move.
-------
 
 
 

(5) Version by Edith R. Farrell: http://poems.com/special_features/prose/essay_townsend.php 

Kiss me. Again. More kisses I desire.
Give me one your sweetness to express.
Give me the most passionate you possess.
Four I'll return, and hotter than the fire.

There, did they burn? I'll change that hurt to pleasure
By giving you ten others—all quit light,
Thus, as we mingle our kisses with delight,
Let us enjoy each other at our leisure.

This to teach one a double life shall give.
Each by himself and in his love shall live.
Allow my love this mad and foolish thought:

I'm always sad when living so discreetly,
And never find my happiness completely,
Unless a sally from my self I've sought.

(6) Prose version by Gerard P. Sharpling, via http://jes.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/2/117
 
Kiss me again, kiss me again and kiss me. If you give me one of those long, loving kisses of yours, I will give you four more kisses, hotter than live coals. And if you are feeling sad, I will soon ease the pain by giving you ten more sweet, gentle kisses. Our kisses will melt into another, and we will relax and enjoy being with one another. We will each lead a double life. You will live in me, and I in you. I know these are mad thoughts. But I wish, at least, that Love will give me the pleasure of holding them in my mind. And even if I am forced to lead a discreet and mundane life for a while, I take pleasure in the thought that I could be happy when you take me on a mad journey beyond myself.
Opsi Suara
4 votes - [33.33%]
.  
3 votes - [25%]
.  
0 votes - [0%]
.  
0 votes - [0%]
.  
2 votes - [16.67%]
.  
3 votes - [25%]
.  

Dikirim:
21 Mei 2009 6:18
Entri #176599- membalas #175441
+0-0
J. K.
Photo
Bahasa ibu: Polandia
Bergabung: 18 Februari 2003
Lokasi: Polandia

(removed) 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

Originally written by Laurent Chiacchierini on May 4, 2009 5:00 PM

as the sonnet form exists both in English as well as in French (and other languages), it should be ideally rendered as such when translating a poem from French into English (or vice versa; see for example RE: Sonnet de Shakespeare 29).

The discussion, however, is not new.
For those reading French, see http://www.univ-paris8.fr/dela/etranger/pages/5/cottegnies.html

Does William Shakespeare's Poetry Really Reach Us Anymore? Come On---Really?


Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
21 Mei 2009 16:14
Entri #176643- membalas #176599
+0-0
Nanna Mercer
Bahasa ibu: Inggris, Dansk
Bergabung: 12 Februari 2005
Lokasi: Denmark
 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

Originally written by Jacek K. on May 21, 2009 12:18 PM

Does William Shakespeare's Poetry Really Reach Us Anymore? Come On---Really?

"The problem is whether Shakespeare's English is the language we speak at all. English of the late 1500s presents us with a tricky question: At what point do we concede that substantial comprehension across the centuries has become too much of a challenge to expect of anyone but specialists? "

-----

I doubt that I could understand the Middle English if read aloud to me, but reading it in a side-by-side version, it doesn't take that long to get a feeling of the rhythm and the language to the point where the Middle English starts to feel familiar and the Wife of Bath (my favorite tale) a friend speaking in a language you actually understand.  

 I have removed the hyperlinks in the ME version. However, on the library site they have a glossary and the hyperlinks in the ME version leads you straight to it.

From Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales:

From The Canterbury Tales:
The Wife of Bath's Prologue
lines 1-34: The Wife of Bath mentions her five husbands

 

The Prologe of the Wyves Tale of Bathe

 

       "Experience, though noon auctoritee

 

Were in this world, were right ynogh to me

 

To speke of wo that is in mariage;

 

For, lordynges, sith I twelf yeer was of age,

5

Thonked be God, that is eterne on lyve,

 

Housbondes at chirche dore I have had fyve -

 

For I so ofte have ywedded bee -

 

And alle were worthy men in hir degree.

 

But me was toold, certeyn, nat longe agoon is,

10

That sith that Crist ne wente nevere but onis

 

To weddyng in the Cane of Galilee,

 

That by the same ensample, taughte he me,

 

That I ne sholde wedded be but ones.

 

Herkne eek, lo, which a sharpe word for the nones,

15

Biside a welle Jhesus, God and Man,

 

Spak in repreeve of the Samaritan.

 

"Thou hast yhad fyve housbondes," quod he,

 

"And thilke man the which that hath now thee

 

Is noght thyn housbonde;" thus seyde he certeyn.

20

What that he mente ther by, I kan nat seyn;

 

But that I axe, why that the fifthe man

 

Was noon housbonde to the Samaritan?

 

How manye myghte she have in mariage?

 

Yet herde I nevere tellen in myn age

25

Upon this nombre diffinicioun.

 

Men may devyne, and glosen up and doun,

 

But wel I woot, expres, withoute lye,

 

God bad us for to wexe and multiplye;

 

That gentil text kan I wel understonde.

30

Eek wel I woot, he seyde, myn housbonde

 

Sholde lete fader and mooder, and take to me;

 

But of no nombre mencioun made he,

 

Of bigamye, or of octogamye;

 

Why sholde men speke of it vileynye?

 

      "Experience, though no authority

 

Were in this world, were good enough for me,

 

To speak of woe that is in all marriage;

 

For, masters, since I was twelve years of age,

5

Thanks be to God who is forever alive,

 

Of husbands at church door have I had five;

 

For men so many times have married me;

 

And all were worthy men in their degree.

 

But someone told me not so long ago

10

That since Our Lord, save once, would never go

 

To wedding that at Cana in Galilee,

 

Thus, by this same example, showed he me

 

I never should have married more than once.

 

Lo and behold! What sharp words, for the nonce,

15

Beside a well Lord Jesus, God and man,

 

Spoke in reproving the Samaritan:

 

"For thou hast had five husbands," thus said he,

 

"And he whom thou hast now to be with thee

 

Is not thine husband." Thus he said that day,

20

But what he meant thereby I cannot say;

 

And I would ask now why that same fifth man

 

Was not husband to the Samaritan?

 

How many might she have, then, in marriage?

 

For I have never heard, in all my age,

25

Clear exposition of this number shown,

 

Though men may guess and argue up and down.

 

But well I know and say, and do not lie,

 

God bade us to increase and multiply;

 

That worthy text can I well understand.

30

And well I know he said, too, my husband

 

Should father leave, and mother, and cleave to me;

 

But no specific number mentioned He,

 

Whether of bigamy or octogamy;

 

Why should men speak of it reproachfully?

 

----------

 

http://www.librarius.com/canttran/wftltrfs.htm

 


Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
22 Mei 2009 15:14
Entri #176726- membalas #175441
+0-0
J. K.
Photo
Bahasa ibu: Polandia
Bergabung: 18 Februari 2003
Lokasi: Polandia

(removed) 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

I have voted for #5 on this poll.


Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
25 Mei 2009 4:20
Entri #176798- membalas #175441
+0-0
Nanna Mercer
Bahasa ibu: Inggris, Dansk
Bergabung: 12 Februari 2005
Lokasi: Denmark
 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

Hollywood celebrities have gone to London to seek redress over reports of wayward kisses.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/business/media/25libel.html?ref=europe

 

No, reckless, juicy, tasty and wayward rekissing. And no smackers, please.

 

Nanna


Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
06 Juni 2009 7:44
Entri #177708- membalas #175441
+0-0
Nanna Mercer
Bahasa ibu: Inggris, Dansk
Bergabung: 12 Februari 2005
Lokasi: Denmark
 
Chocolate and kisses...

 

When is a kiss just a kiss? 

 

Post #115324

 



[Diedit oleh Nanna Mercer pada 06 Juni 2009 7:46]

Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
14 Juni 2009 18:06
Entri #178262- membalas #175441
+0-0
Nanna Mercer
Bahasa ibu: Inggris, Dansk
Bergabung: 12 Februari 2005
Lokasi: Denmark
 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

It is difficult
to get the news from poems,
yet men die miserably every day
for lack of what is found there.

William Carlos Williams

 

http://www.spcsb.org/advoc/poetrytx.html

 

[snip]Though poetry as therapy is a relatively new development in the expressive arts, it is as old as the first chants sung around the tribal fires of primitive peoples. The chant/ song/poem is what heals the heart and soul. Even the word psychology suggests that, psyche meaning soul and logos speech or word. In mythology Oceanus told Prometheus, "Words are the physician of the mind diseased." Though it was recorded there was a Roman physician named Soranus in the first century A.D. who prescribed poetry and drama for his patients, the link between poetry and medicine has not been well documented. It is interesting to note, however, that the first hospital in the American colonies to care for the mentally ill, Pennsylvania Hospital founded in 1751 by Benjamin Franklin, employed several ancillary treatments for their patients including reading, writing and the publishing of their writings in a newspaper they titled The Illuminator. The term "bibliotherapy" is a more common term than poetry therapy, which became popular in the 1960’s and 1970’s, which literally means the use of literature to serve or help. Freud once wrote, "Not I, but the poet discovered the unconscious." Another time he said, "The mind is a poetry-making organ." Later on, many other theoreticians such as Adler, Jung, Arieti and Reik wrote of how much science had to gain from the study of poets. ...

 


Balas |Kutip |Edit |Hapus
Dikirim:
06 Juli 2009 21:09
Entri #179735- membalas #175441
+0-0
Charlotte Huo
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Member

Bahasa ibu: Mandarin, Inggris
Jumlah kiriman: 23
Bergabung: 21 Desember 2005
Lokasi: Singapura
 
RE: Verse or prose? Vote!

I like version 2 most. 


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