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Jacek K.
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Dernière intervention 5/24/2012 18:41

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Publié le:
dimanche 4 juillet 2010 15:00
Message n°202382— en réponse au n°179710
+0-0
Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!


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Publié le:
lundi 5 juillet 2010 03:52
Message n°202403— en réponse au n°202382
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!

Originally written by Jacek K. on June 29, 2010 5:24 AM

And speaking of there being no boundaries between the real and the virtual worlds, here is

All Men Are Tweeted Equal
A Slate Twitter contest: Reduce the Declaration of Independence to a single tweet.

Let the dinosaurs continue rambling about that old piece of paper document while we just compress it in a single tweet and carry it around in our "cells."

The winners of Slate's contest to rewrite the Declaration of Independence in a single tweet: http://www.slate.com/id/2258811/

* * *

http://www.slate.com/id/2258833/

On July 4, Independence Day is celebrated with American flags, fireworks, and images of Uncle Sam. Do other countries have their own national personifications, too?

Yes. Uncle Sam'skin generally fall into two categories: Personifications of a nation itself and personifications of its people. Personifications of Western nations tend to be beautiful women in the model of Athena, clad in robes, often carrying a sword, and surrounded by national symbols. Marianne, the embodiment of France, is one of the best known, as is the female figure Brittania. Popular personifications, meanwhile, tend to capture the national character. England's John Bull, for example, supposedly represents the British everyman: a stout, middle-aged yeoman with common sense and a suspicion of authority. Same with Germany's Deutscher Michel, a simple man usually depicted wearing a nightcap as a symbol of innocence. Zé Povinho, Portugal's working-class everyman, mocks the elites. Uncle Sam is a special case: He's not exactly the personification of America—that would be the goddess-like Columbia, who first appeared during the Revolutionary War—nor does he represent the people. Rather, he stands in for the U.S. government. ...

* * *

So celebrate the 4th if you like.

But as for me, between God, country, and apple pie, I’ll take the apple pie.

http://www.progressive.org/wx070310.html



[Modifié par Jacek K. - lundi 5 juillet 2010 05:46]

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samedi 2 juillet 2011 06:44
Message n°227856— en réponse au n°202403
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!

Happy Independence Day weekend!

The Nation has always agreed with the eminent historian (and Nation editorial board member) Eric Foner, who wrote in the days after 9/11, "At times of crisis, the most patriotic act of all is the unyielding defense of civil liberties, the right to dissent and equality before the law for all Americans."

Ten years before the 9/11 attacks, in the summer of 1991 during the aftermath of the first Gulf War, the magazine published a forum exploring the question of what is patriotism -- Is there a patriotism that is not nationalistic? How does the historic internationalism of the liberal left relate to the concept of patriotism? What do you value in the traditions of your country? Why is patriotism often seen as the province of the right?

Read the sadly, still relevant forum


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lundi 4 juillet 2011 06:29
Message n°227945— en réponse au n°227856
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John B.
Langue maternelle: anglais
Membre depuis: vendredi 1 février 2008
Lieu: Allemagne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!
Just as a kind of refresher:

- patriotism = love of one's country.

- nationalism = belief that one's country is superior to other countries.
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lundi 4 juillet 2011 06:33
Message n°227946— en réponse au n°227945
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John B.
Langue maternelle: anglais
Membre depuis: vendredi 1 février 2008
Lieu: Allemagne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!
Btw, Jacek, just FYI, but if no one has heard of the guy ("Eric Foner"), maybe it is best not to describe him as an "eminent historian".

[Modifié par John B. - lundi 4 juillet 2011 06:34]

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lundi 4 juillet 2011 06:47
Message n°227947— en réponse au n°227946
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!

Originally written by John Bunch on July 4, 2011 6:33 AM

... if no one has heard of the guy ("Eric Foner"), maybe it is best not to describe him as an "eminent historian".

If historians hadn't heard of him, they wouldn't have elected him president of the American Historical Association in 2000. At which point he said: "In a global age, the forever-unfinished story of American freedom must become a conversation with the entire world, not a complacent monologue with ourselves." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Foner)

You wanted to say, perhaps, that he is not as popular with certain media as the Brit Niall Fergusson is?

Have a good one!

 


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lundi 4 juillet 2011 13:36
Message n°227961— en réponse au n°227945
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!

Originally written by John Bunch on July 4, 2011 6:29 AM

Just as a kind of refresher:

- patriotism = love of one's country.

- nationalism = belief that one's country is superior to other countries.
 

This too depends on how it gets manipulated.

From http://www.utne.com/Politics/Pledging-Allegiance-To-Peace:

[excerpt] The bond between patriot­ism and war is not even covert.

I personally experienced the intoxication of patriotism. Right after 9/11 (before I was a Quaker), I supported the Iraq war. I believed that the cause was just. Looking back, I realize that I was living in a fog, basing my opinions on fleeting, vague notions. Because I heard something about weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), I was able to watch “shock and awe” approvingly, naively envisioning the United States speedily wiping out terrorism by force across the world. I cringe when I recall arguing with someone publicly that the United States should ignore the United Nations’ caution about entering Iraq.

When it became clear that Iraq had no WMDs or links to 9/11, and that the war was based on lies, I felt betrayed. I also felt guilty for my own poor judgment—how could I have been so gullible? Grappling with this, I eventually saw that I had fallen prey to the stupefying effects of patriotism.

In kindergarten, I learned a mysterious morning chanting ritual in which one robotically pledges one’s life to a flag and to one nation under God, “invisible” (as my child’s mind heard it) with liberty and justice for all. Now I understand what I was saying. And I understand that people, and certainly Christians, should not pledge at all, certainly not to a material object (an idol), certainly not to one particular nation among many, and certainly not to something under God. I also know now that no kingdom save an invisible one could truly have liberty and justice for all.

I remember getting emotional about the war song known as “The Star-Spangled Banner.” In seventh grade, I even won third place in an essay contest on the topic “What does patriot­ism mean to me?” I virtually equated America with freedom—faulty reasoning on which the essay was based and for which I was rewarded.

Many of us are taught in school that “America is the greatest country in the world,” while the darker aspects of our history are largely ignored or glossed over. So how could I not view the United States as innocent, and anyone who opposes it as unreasonable and even evil? How could I not assume that whatever the United States does is destined to work and that the president always speaks the truth? ...

In “Patriotism and Government,” published in 1900, Tolstoy writes: “It is immoral because, instead of recognizing himself as the son of God, as Christianity teaches us, or at least as a free man, who is guided by his reason, every man, under the influence of patriotism, recognizes himself as the son of his country and the slave of his government, and commits acts which are contrary to his reason and to his conscience.” ...


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lundi 4 juillet 2011 23:24
Message n°228006— en réponse au n°227961
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John B.
Langue maternelle: anglais
Membre depuis: vendredi 1 février 2008
Lieu: Allemagne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!
Re:

"Many of us are taught in school that “America is the greatest country in the world,” while the darker aspects of our history are largely ignored or glossed over."

LOL. Gotta disagree there. It is actually more like: "Many (most) of us are taught that America is a racist, sexist country that did lots of bad things to minority cultures, and the darker aspects of our history are largely over-emphasized and highlighted to the exclusion of almost everything else". ;-D

[Modifié par John B. - lundi 4 juillet 2011 23:26]

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Publié le:
lundi 4 juillet 2011 23:33
Message n°228007— en réponse au n°227961
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John B.
Langue maternelle: anglais
Membre depuis: vendredi 1 février 2008
Lieu: Allemagne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!
"I am a citizen of the world, and doing good is my religion". - Thomas Paine, on being pressured by Christian patriots to say he was a Christian American.
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Publié le:
mardi 5 juillet 2011 05:04
Message n°228014— en réponse au n°228006
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Langue maternelle: polonais
Membre depuis: lundi 15 février 2010
Lieu: Pologne
 
RE: Happy 4th of July!

Originally written by John Bunch on July 4, 2011 11:24 PM

It is actually more like: "Many (most) of us are taught that America is a racist, sexist country that did lots of bad things to minority cultures, and the darker aspects of our history are largely over-emphasized and highlighted to the exclusion of almost everything else".

From my little contact with the US pre-college educational system, I don't remember anything like that being taught there in the last century. What was taught, certainly, was that racism had been an official policy of the country but the government did all it could to change it so it is now up to the people to work on their mindset. I have always admired that effort in the US and its results.



[Modifié par Jacek K. - mardi 5 juillet 2011 05:22]

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