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Like matter itself, an ideal is mutable, but indestructible. It does not die; it only undergoes a change. .... And if Europe gives Arabia a railway, Arabia gives Europe an idea -- which I think balances the account.Ameen Rihani (1876-1940) in "The Path of Vision"
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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 10:24 ق.ظ GMT
Post #243146—in reply to #243132
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

Ragardless of what Israel may be telling the US to do, it's very likely that

Intervention in Syria Is Morally Justified—and Completely Impractical

This is a contribution to ‘What Should the United States Do About Syria?: A TNR Symposium.

In trying to think through what outsiders should do to stop the killing in Syria, the only unambiguous issue is the moral one. Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is perpetrating crimes against humanity upon his own people. The “responsibility to protect,” unanimously adopted at the U.N. in 2005, stipulates that when states fail to protect their own citizens from mass atrocities, other states have an affirmative responsibility to act. Only a gross cynic—say, Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov—could argue that Assad has not triggered this international obligation. An intervention would be morally justified, just as it was in Libya.

So far, therefore, I agree with Leon Wieseltier, who argues for such an intervention. But this is not a classroom; and calls for action have to clear both a prudential hurdle and a practical one. ...

http://www.tnr.com/article/world/100615/syria-symposium-intervention-arab-league


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 04:11 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243173—in reply to #243132
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

Originally written by Kim Metzger on February 10, 2012 4:48 AM

Poor Russia.

That qualifier is missing from the following Foreign Affairs account:

Russia vetoed a resolution at the UN Security Council to end the violence in Syria because it feels burned by last year's international intervention in Libya, and it harbors suspicions about the motives of the United States.


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 04:15 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243174—in reply to #243173
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Kim Metzger
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RE: Libya

Right, Putin lost a lot of money in the Libya deal.


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 04:27 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243175—in reply to #243174
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

Russia just seems to be less altruistic than the United States whose charitable expenses in Libya were as follows:

According to the Pentagon, that was the cost to U.S. taxpayers for Muammar el-Qaddafi's head: $1.1 billion through September, the latest figure just out of the Defense Department. ...

The final totals will take some time to add up, and still do not include the State Department, CIA, and other agencies involved or other NATO and participating countries. Vice President Joe Biden said that the U.S. "spent $2 billion total and didn't lose a single life."  (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/10/for-the-us-war-against-qaddafi-cost-relatively-little-11-billion/247133/)

Compared to such a bill on the US third simultaneous front alone, Russia does seem to be poor...

But, hey, can we all be rich and famous?


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 04:47 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243176—in reply to #243175
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Kim Metzger
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RE: Libya

And Qaddafi was such a nice guy. His people will miss him.


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:06 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243178—in reply to #243176
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

A few more nice guys to go:

Originally written by Jacek K. on March 21, 2011 2:39 PM

[Obama] said “innocent men and women face brutality and death at the hands of their own government.”

That’s true of the people of Yemen, our ally, which just mowed down dozens of peaceful protesters.

That’s true of the people of Bahrain, our ally, which also just mowed down dozens of peaceful protesters.

Then there’s the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, our chief Arab ally and a repressive government in its own right, which just rolled its tanks into Bahrain.

In the Ivory Coast today, another country on good terms with Washington, a dictatorial government is brutalizing its people.

http://www.progressive.org/wx031911.html

Should keep this thread busy throughout another Spring.


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:11 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243180—in reply to #243178
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Kim Metzger
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RE: Libya

So you're in favor of keeping all police states in power? Or just those hostile to the West?



[Edited by Kim Metzger on الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:13 ب.ظ]

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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:19 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243182—in reply to #243180
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

Originally written by Kim Metzger on February 10, 2012 5:11 PM

So you're in favor of keeping all police states in power? Or just those hostile to the West?

A dictator is a dictator and supporting them in once own backyard while crying blue murder elsewhere is called?

Hint:

Originally written by Kim Metzger on January 30, 2012 3:46 AM

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.  Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. - Wikipedia


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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:23 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243184—in reply to #243182
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Kim Metzger
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RE: Libya

And a hypocrite criticizes only Americans and remains silent about the slaughter committed by his friends.



[Edited by Kim Metzger on الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:25 ب.ظ]

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Posted:
الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:29 ب.ظ GMT
Post #243185—in reply to #226310
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Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: الإثنين, فيفرييه 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: Libya

Then



[Edited by Jacek K. on الجمعة, فيفرييه 10, 2012 05:30 ب.ظ]

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