The following morning the weather was so foul it hardly deserved the name, and Dirk decided to call it Stanley instead. – Douglas Adams, "The Salmon of Doubt"
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 5, 2009 3:46 PM How about working for this outfit?
Why not, if they pay according to the quality?
That is the first time I have seen an agency explicitly stating that it is hiring students or beginners who do cheap translations (they call them "semi-professional" translators on their website).
On second thoughts, no. Students and beginners are not necessarily semi-professional. I was a student when I made my first full book and what I got was not what was on the contract, it was almost two times as much, because the publisher liked the translation. I didn`t have to ask; back then, quality used to mean something.
Is this a sign of the times or are conditions about to get even tougher?
Of the times, I`m afraid. Now they seem to want discounts for good translations...
Maybe the day is getting closer when we will read:"lowbudget zahnbehandlungen" will soon be active on the German market and is looking for students or beginners who do cheap dental work. If you are interested, send your CV to infode@lowbudgetdentalwork.com."
Would you buy the cheap dental work? As a patient, I mean?
Elite Veteran Mother tongue: English Posts: 845 Joined: March 9, 2008 Location: United Kingdom
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Laurent J. Krauland on January 5, 2009 1:39 PM
Originally written by Derek Thornton on December 12, 2008 1:51 PM So if the banks can do it, why shouldn't an agency being run on a shoestring sit on payments to earn a little interest for 3 months if they can?
Derek
Why?
Because: 1) as the saying goes, "You don't get nothing for nothing, not even a meal"... and not even a shoestring;
2) agencies run on a shoestring should be selling haberdashery, preferably made in some low-cost country (gross benefit margin from 300% on and upwards, so there's no need to keep money on a savings account for a meager 3.5% or even 6.0% interest rate).
Laurent K.
Exactly, if the agency aren't smart enough to make sure they have clients who pay on time, why should their contractors suffer? If their budget does not allow for them to pay both their employees and contractors, they are either very new or very hopeless. In the first case, they need to wake up and manage their cashflow properly, in the second case, a few shiny red letters and a friendly bailiff should do the trick.
I do think that anyone who outsources a job should realise this simple truth: when you make a contract with a service provider their right to payment is separate to the arrival of payment from your client unless otherwise agreed in advance. In other words, follow the advice given to freelancers and have some contingency reserves on standby because whether your client pays or not you will need to cough up.
Similarly, I think both freelancers and agencies need to learn that clients who offer poor rates tend to also be rubbish at paying anything. Much better to sit and wait for a proper job with decent rates than to clutch at the $0.01 per word brigade and wonder why, three months later you haven't seen a penny.
Mother tongue: French Joined: October 31, 2004 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Sign of the times? (this is a job posted today) for En/Fr (that's actually received 10 'bids' already
[During this recession times the price we can offer is 0.02 USD. ...Required software: PowerPoint. Job place: Delhi, Delhi, India]
Can't check... but we could probably bet that their "pre-recession times" rates weren't much higher! How can you even pay for your Trados at 1.5 eurocent/word, much less pay the rent??
Re. the topic of this thread: I've never had any problem payments with direct clients in more than 2 decades (only with a few colleagues and agencies long since deleted out of my address book). But then, I never look for and would never accept to work for direct clients at the end of the world via translation web sites - that's just asking for it (and this is true also for outsourcing agencies/ intermediaries, e.g. the offer posted above)...
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
As per agencies and direct job offers, and to go on with what I said before - by accepting either low rates, or impossible delivery dates, or long long payment deadlines, or a combination of those three, or... etc., we just feed the hollow and greedy green-eyed monster of non-payment, recession and the like!
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 6, 2009 11:21 AM]
Mother tongue: English Joined: April 30, 2007 Location: Germany
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Laurent J. Krauland on January 6, 2009 3:42 PM ... - by accepting either low rates, or impossible delivery dates, or long long payment deadlines, or a combination of those three, or... etc., we just feed the hollow and greedy green-eyed monster of non-payment, recession and the like!
Right, but as far as the impossible delivery dates are concerned, we are the weakest link in the chain. There is a belief in the catalog industry, for example, that translators are the most easy to compress. And if it is too much for one to do in the available time then you just get another one and split the work between them. You cannot do that with a printer, have one do one half of a catalog and the other printer do the other half and then stick them together, even if it would work the printers would not go along with it but translators always seem to be willing to, or at least it is always possible to find some who will.
I have had that happen to me. I agreed to do a job by a certain date (4 weeks) and shortly after I had started they told me that due to the printer's other commitments, I would have to be finished in 3 weeks, the printer had told them to go find another printer if that was not convenient. I told them that I was going to finish in the 4 weeks originally promised so they just took half the job away from me and gave it to another translator.
I don't see any way around that tactic.
Derek
[Edited by Derek Thornton on January 6, 2009 12:28 PM]
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 6, 2009 6:23 PM
I don't see any way around that tactic.
Derek
My current belief is that, deep down inside us, we know what is right and what is wrong - call it angelism, optimism or idealism...
And when we have tactics such as those you describe appearing in a global process, we know that someone has played foul elsewhere. Maybe nothing to really worry about, but something to take into account for a potential future co-operation with such clients.
I had a potential client who asked me to give them 20% rebate even before the first job. When I completed it and received their "feedback and corrections", I knew why I never should have accepted their one-off offer in the first place: they were just looking for some new ideas and phrasings they could build upon in their own way.
Laurent K.
[Edited by Laurent J Krauland on January 6, 2009 1:07 PM]
Originally written by dominique f. on January 6, 2009 2:39 PM
Sign of the times? (this is a job posted today) for En/Fr (that's actually received 10 'bids' already
[During this recession times the price we can offer is 0.02 USD. ...Required software: PowerPoint. Job place: Delhi, Delhi, India]
As has been pointed out, business-wise it doesn't make sense for an outsourcer to pay $00.04 per word when s/he can get the job done for less. If it works, it works.
Even TDC (Tele Denmark Communication) a giant in telecommunications is feeling the recession - they keep overcharging me and when I complain and refuse to pay the bill unless they remove the overcharge, I am told that they will deduct the overcharge on the next bill, which is paid quarterly. No, I will not lend TDC my hard earned money for the next quarter. "That's just the way it is," I'm told. "I must pay or risk a surcharge."
My thoughts on the matter are that TDC is seen as so big and so powerful that no one complains, and thus they can get away with it. If it works, it works! I have complained! It's stressful and tiring writing all those letters but it works.
Why should I allow TDC, whose chairman earns millions of kroner per year, to borrow my money without interest (of course) and against my will.
By allowing outsourcers and other 'godtfolk' to behave as though they are above reproach, I am consenting to behaviour which in my view is fuelled by greed.
I will NOT!
Nanna
[Edited by Nanna Mercer on January 6, 2009 12:55 PM]
Mother tongue: Finnish Joined: June 11, 2008 Location: Finland
RE: Direct job offers: Be careful
Originally written by Derek Thornton on January 6, 2009 6:23 PM
I agreed to do a job by a certain date (4 weeks) and shortly after I had started they told me that due to the printer's other commitments, I would have to be finished in 3 weeks, the printer had told them to go find another printer if that was not convenient. I told them that I was going to finish in the 4 weeks originally promised so they just took half the job away from me and gave it to another translator.
I don't see any way around that tactic.
Surely your client was not legally entitled to unilaterally amend the agreement you initially had entered into?
Mother tongues: German, French Joined: August 9, 2007 Location: France
RE: Somewhat OFF TOPIC
Originally written by Nanna Mercer on January 6, 2009 6:47 PM
By allowing outsourcers and other 'godtfolk' to behave as though they are above reproach, I am consenting to behaviour which in my view is fuelled by greed.
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As per agencies and direct job offers, and to go on with what I said before - by accepting either low rates, or impossible delivery dates, or long long payment deadlines, or a combination of those three, or... etc., we just feed the hollow and greedy green-eyed monster of non-payment, recession and the like!
