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Publicado:
jueves, 02 de julio de 2009 20:04
Mensaje #179492-en respuesta a #179491
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John Bunch
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RE: Situation in Iran
Have you ever seen the movie "Syriana" ? It was based on a book by ex-CIA operative Robert Baer, and it begins with Baer delivering a rocket to what he thinks are freedom fighters, or people who are pro-US, inside Iran. Baer has stated that a good way to get at the mullahs would be to just deliver such weapons into areas of Iran where the ethnic Persians are not the majority (the mullahs really do fear that, by the way). It is not very outlandish. Regarding how to shoot the gun, well, of course there would have to be some coordination on that. I still prefer it to nuking Teheran, which is what some conservatives have suggested, if Iran were to fire a WMD. I just don't want to kill millions of people. I want a revolution, not mass murder.

Or do you think that the better punishment for Iran firing a WMD on Israel would be a stern rebuke from Hillary Clinton and Obama ?

[Editado por John Bunch el día jueves, 02 de julio de 2009 20:08]

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Publicado:
jueves, 02 de julio de 2009 20:34
Mensaje #179495-en respuesta a #179492
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Derek Thornton
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Se inscribió el: lunes, 30 de abril de 2007
Ubicación: Alemania

(removed) 
RE: Situation in Iran

Originally written by John Bunch on July 3, 2009 1:04 AM
Or do you think that the better punishment for Iran firing a WMD on Israel would be a stern rebuke from Hillary Clinton and Obama ?

It is no use asking me, I am just as confused as you are. First we are told that they were all peaceful demonstrators who were attacked by brutal paramilitary gangs without provocation and now you want me to believe that they were not peaceful demonstrators at all but brave democratic urban guerillas who would have overthrown the legitimate government of Iran by force if only they had had enough weapons and ammunition, all of which the US Air Force would gladly drop on Tehran residential districts by the crate-load (presumably in the middle of the night) the moment a WMD is launched.

In other reports, I seem to remember being told that the harmless Iraqis would have long ago been at peace if they had not been kept supplied with IEDs by Iran of which Iran appears to have an inexhaustable supply. I have to ask myself then why it is that the fearless unarmed Iranian freedom fighters have not long ago brought the ruthless Iranian dictatorship to its knees with IEDs? They are apparently more effective than assault rifles any day and ought to be readily available in Iran.

Something is missing in all this Western anti-Iranian propaganda that hinders me from accepting it all at face value.

Derek


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Publicado:
jueves, 02 de julio de 2009 21:23
Mensaje #179496-en respuesta a #179495
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John Bunch
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RE: Situation in Iran
When the Jews got guns, they started shooting back at the Nazis (Warsaw Ghetto, 1944). Unarmed people who suddenly get guns can suddenly start to fight back, particularly when the army they are fighting is "engaged elsewhere".

World history is full of some army dumping a load of guns for "friends" somewhere. The Brits did it, the Russians did it, the Americans did it, the French do it (in Africa), etc [the "gentlemanly way to do it is to write a check, which then gets turned into guns]).

It is not as far-out as you suppose. How do you think for instance that Castro took power in Cuba ? Do you think he petitioned his way into Havana, or did he do it using truckloads of guys with guns, and those guns came from "somewhere". Ditto every revolution everywhere (usually backed by the then-USSR or China). We Americans toppled the world's greatest military power -at the time in 1776 - with bands of guys who picked up guns. What do you think might have happened at Tianemin Square, if you had dropped a few AK-47s into the mix ? Would it have been such a one-sided massacre ? A massacre or holocaust, when you give the victims guns, suddenly is no longer a massacre, but a "civil war".

I bet that the Tutsis in Ruanda in 1994 might have liked to have a box or two of rifles, for instance (as they were being hacked to death by guys with machetes).

And before you get indignant about this position of mine, you might want to go watch that Che Guevara movie, which is 4 hours long, and depicts how Che was basically an arms dealer and distributed guns (and war) all over Africa and Latin America. If it didn't work, people would stop doing it...

[Editado por John Bunch el día jueves, 02 de julio de 2009 21:29]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 3:51
Mensaje #179499-en respuesta a #179496
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J. K.
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Lengua materna: Polaco
Se inscribió el: martes, 18 de febrero de 2003
Ubicación: Polonia

(removed) 
RE: OT

Originally written by John Bunch on July 3, 2009 3:23 AM

When the Jews got guns, they started shooting back at the Nazis (Warsaw Ghetto, 1944).

Poland's capital was the site of not one but two of the major uprisings against German power during World War II: the ghetto uprising of Warsaw Jews in 1943, after which the ghetto was leveled; and the Warsaw Uprising of the Polish Home Army in 1944, after which the rest of the city was destroyed. These two central examples of resistance and mass killing were confused in the German mass media in August 1994, 1999, and 2004, on all the recent five-year anniversaries of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, and will be again in August 2009. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22875



[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 3:52]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 4:29
Mensaje #179501-en respuesta a #179499
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Derek Thornton
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Se inscribió el: lunes, 30 de abril de 2007
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(removed) 
RE: OT

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 3, 2009 8:51 AM
These two central examples of resistance and mass killing were confused in the German mass media in August 1994, 1999, and 2004, on all the recent five-year anniversaries of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, and will be again in August 2009. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22875 

The message contained in that article, Jacek, appears to me to be that in any situation in which several crimes against humanity are taking place concurrently, if you are going to get killed in one of them and don't want to be forgotten then arrange to be killed in the worst one because the mass media cannot handle more than one crime against humanity at a time.

It also occurs to me that the Allied strategy of reducing all the major German cities to rubble by bombing them was fatally flawed. If instead of dropping bombs, the Allies had dropped assault rifles, anti-tank weapons and body armor by the crate-load as described in the Bunch Plan then the entire German population, deprived of weapons by the Nazis, would have been able to rise up and sweep Hitler and the Nazis out of power.

So that was the problem then in World War II Germany, there weren't enough weapons available for a popular uprising! Why didn't I see that before?

Derek

 


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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 4:36
Mensaje #179502-en respuesta a #179501
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J. K.
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Se inscribió el: martes, 18 de febrero de 2003
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(removed) 
RE: OT

Originally written by Derek Thornton on July 3, 2009 10:29 AM

the mass media cannot handle more than one crime against humanity at a time.

Which brings us back to Michael Jackson's death, an undoubted God's crime against humanity, which eclipsed what was going on in Iran. Says http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/06/29/how_michael_jackson_answered_the_ayatollahs_prayers:

[Michal Jackson] was no hero. He was certainly no one to be celebrating. Unless of course, you were an ayatollah. Because one of the truly transcendental ironies of recent history has to be the fact that a symbol of the worst sort of Western spiritual and social corruption...celebrity worship, drug culture, financial excess, debauchery...ended up providing just the distraction that the keepers of the Islamic Revolution's flame in Tehran needed to direct the world's attention away from their abuses of their own people. 

In an instant, the really important story of tens of millions struggling to be heard in Iran was swept off the air by the death of a 50 year old accused pedophile in America. CNN, which had been congratulating itself daily for bringing the "green revolution" in Iran to the world as only it could in an instant tossed its news judgment out the window and started offering 24/7 retrospectives on how Michael Jackson chose the red leather jacket he wore in the


[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 6:07]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 4:40
Mensaje #179503-en respuesta a #179496
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Liliana Boladz
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(removed) 
RE: OT

Originally written by John Bunch on July 2, 2009 9:23 PM When the Jews got guns, they started shooting back at the Nazis (Warsaw Ghetto, 1944). Unarmed people who suddenly get guns can suddenly start to fight back, particularly when the army they are fighting is "engaged elsewhere".

 A massacre or holocaust, when you give the victims guns, suddenly is no longer a massacre, but a "civil war"

Do you think that civil war is such a great thing? Arent't there other ways to help the nations.
Did the so called help in Warsaw help anybody, except that everybody got killed, all the Warsaw dwellers. 2/3 of the pre-war Warsaw popullation got killed. What a great help, indeed amazing.

 



[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 6:08]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 5:01
Mensaje #179505-en respuesta a #179502
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Liliana Boladz
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(removed) 
RE: OT

Originally written by Jacek K. on July 3, 2009 4:36 AM

Originally written by Derek Thornton on July 3, 2009 10:29 AM

the mass media cannot handle more than one crime against humanity at a time.

_prayers:

[Michal Jackson] was no hero. He was certainly no one to be celebrating. Unless of course, you were an ayatollah. Because one of the truly transcendental ironies of recent history has to be the fact that a symbol of the worst sort of Western spiritual and social corruption...

I do not thing Michael Jackson was a symbol of all the worst in the modern culture: I personally think quite the opposite, regardless of his presumed prescription drug use and all the lies attributed to him by dirty minds of the "moral world" and fortune seekers. In this sense he was just a victim, a scape-goat that the society is looking for, always. He was a great artist and mainly a symbol of eliminating all the boundaries and finding something transcendent in us. He was also a very nice person and even the US police does not believe in all the accusations he was subjected to twice, after carefully examining all the evidence and invading his mention. I think that he was bigger than the awaited Iranian revolution, being a revolution himself. A revolution against prejudice, the source of all evil, in my mind.

 

 



[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 6:08]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 5:21
Mensaje #179506-en respuesta a #179505
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Shiong-Fong Lew
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Se inscribió el: domingo, 28 de marzo de 2004
Ubicación: Malasia
 
RE: OT

Originally written by Liliana Boladz-Nekipelov on July 3, 2009 6:01 PM

I do not thing Michael Jackson was a symbol of all the worst in the modern culture: I personally think quite the opposite, regardless of  . .

He was a great artist and mainly a symbol of eliminating all the boundaries and finding something transcendent in us. 

I think that he was bigger than the awaited Iranian revolution, being a revolution himself. A revolution against prejudice, the source of all evil, in my mind.

 

Transcending the rebellious tendency in us, kids or otherwise, to smash up things the way MJ smashes car windows in his video?

A revolution against the prejudice that we are prone to apt things we watch on the screen, or that nothing is bad enough to watch (which indirectly preempts censorship)?



[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 6:09]

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Publicado:
viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 5:31
Mensaje #179507-en respuesta a #179506
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Liliana Boladz
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Se inscribió el: sábado, 13 de septiembre de 2008
Ubicación: Estados Unidos

(removed) 
RE: OT

No, I don't think so, but I do not really know what you have in mind, because it is not clear.



[Editado por J. K. el día viernes, 03 de julio de 2009 6:09]

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