How classy!  More interesting yet: the blabla on that home page is signed 'Yours truly, K**AX Management" (my **: don't want to give any more free advertising): how about that! Click on the link and surprise! It's the same Czech agency site where we are redirected automatically when entering the other "translators defense" website posted by Maria... which supposedly, according to Maria again, is a group of freelance translators defending themselves against ill-behaved agencies. What's going on there?? 

df

I gather that Maria discovered this site today and was glad to see that they promised to do what she had hoped to set up - namely protect translators against scamming agencies.  I didn't get to see the discussion forum itself since I didn't join.

  Since some translators have been badly burned, I imagine that the sentiment expressed in the second link might accurately reflect the true feelings of such cheated individuals toward those who cheated them.

Maxi

Maxi,

Is this really exclusively an issue for inexperieced start-up translators or is it the way that we all have been cheated once or the other time over the years as translators as you also admitted in your posting above?

Best regards from Germany,

Matt

One way to put pressure on the translation agencies might be to advise translators to deal only with agencies that have been certified under EN15038. For that certification, inspectors visit their premises and examine their organization. That at least guarantees that they exist at the address claimed and are properly organized according to the current trade standard. If a large number of translators, when approached by an agency, make it clear that they will accept no work from an uncertified agency we might see some progress.

We could also make it clear to translators that working for any agency unable or unwilling to submit to the EN15038 certification process is potentially a high risk undertaking.

Derek..

Matthias, in my post that you quoted, I did not write anything at all about experience or inexperience.  I was addressing Dominique's question.  First of all - her questioning Maria's submission of this agency's link in the context of this thread's topic.  I am surmising that she has recently discovered this site, and was happy to see someone wanting to do what she herself had thought of doing.

The second question posed by Dominique was why any site addressing translators would put up such childish imagery.  To click "terms and conditions" and find yourself staring at a preschooler giving you a finger is not what you would expect as a practical solution to non-payment issues.  But it does express the sentiment.

I do have my thoughts as to why an agency --- which is what that site is ---- would go through all that trouble, but I don't have time to go into it right now.

An interesting observation of having been cheated, which happened twice, is that it was also the only time that I accepted work from agencies that commonly get their translators through bidding process in forums such as this one.  In the first instant, the agency contacted me by phone with an "emergency".  Their translator had suddenly left.  Had I looked in the HFS I would have seen that several people were reporting late or non-payments, and the PMs were changing faster than some people change their socks.  In all my years I had never run into this behaviour so I wasn't ready for it. 

The second person passed on part of a large bid he had obtained, again via TC.

Generally speaking my agency-clients are the old fashioned variety who know what they are doing, have competent PMs, trust my competence and expect me to be reliable.  When the odd concern comes we work intelligently with an aim to problem-solve.  It rarely happens.  This ridiculous atmosphere of conflict and threat - so vividly displayed in exaggeration in the Mad Magazine character link (what's the other one?  Transformer dolls?  Super hero plastic toys?) - is not how I'm accustomed to dealing with things as a professional.

Maxi

Dear All,

The argument of only dealing with agencies who are certified and only work according to BS EN-15038/EN-15038:2006 is a very good idea. However, this is a European Quality Standard and for that reason does not cover the rest of the world.

Secondly, a lot of translators are working purely on internet and across borders. For that reason popping around the corner to see if they exist is often not very practical.

Putting pressure on agencies to comply to a set of rules, regulations, standards is the right way to go. Just because there is basically nothing today covering translators and agencies, that does not mean it cannot be possible tomorrow. This has been my point all along that unless we stand together and actively work towards a solution that is just and right for both parties we will never see a protection. One thing is shouthing about having been burned and another thing is actually to do something about it to prevent it from happening again.

There are also many agencies, as someone pointed out here, who have fancy logos, clever marketing etc. It is easy to be fooled by it. I once approached a Chinese agency and I was impressed by their way of working and marketing themselves. I was impressed until I got their contract. It was pages up and down, including Chinese tax rules and working with people outside of China and all kinds of governmental issues and loads of bla bla. When I got to the end of it I realised that under their payment terms I would not be paid. I had to do a huge amount of work before they could pay me, I think it was work worth £5000 if I remember correctly. I had already asked them how often they could give me projects in my language pairs, but I never got an answer. Needless to say, I did not sign the contract, but I am trained to read contracts and legal jargon and how to interpret laws.

I also got  a large project 300K words from and Indian agency and I demanded payment half-up front and the other half after 150K was delivered. No reply back, but I got the documents and pressure to start the work and deliver within 10 days. When I read through some of the documents I discovered that they had been translated from one language to another and then to a third etc. Not only were the translations of really poor quality the end product that I had could no longer be translated as the client would incur serious liabilities and most like for death as well. These were manuals and health and safety regulation for operating electrical machinery. I also discovered that the Norwegian translator before me, who I am sure was an electrical engineer as the person had corrected some of the fatal errors, but given up and sent it back. I did also reject the project because of it not being possible to give a top quality translation but also because of the payment terms.  This is two sides of the coin. The client gets crap and the translator most likely would not have been paid.

I do not fear really for myself as I do demand payment up-front and I have also contracts with reputable companies. I rarely take on a project from a private individual unless they can offer some form for guarantee and pay up front. I do fear for others in this business and especially new member of this profession, but I also care for the clients.

This is why it is important to discuss this matter over and over again and make as many as possible aware of the lack of protection we have and work together for a unified standard that can be enforced no matter where we are in the world and no matter where in the world the client is. 

I did indeed come across the website yesterday that I posted a link to and although they are an agency, they have at least made a start. Someone commented that it was in the Czech Republic, and I cannot see any wrong in this. Where do we have the main offices for the European Union? They are certainly not in my back garden. The location for those who want to see a change does not matter. What matter is that someone wants to see a change and work towards it.. I was actually happy to come across is and I had no trouble navigating through their pages. I could pick on things myself with that site, like the pretty pictures as a background as this to me is less professional, but that is irellevant. What matter is that someone have started it and we can join, help to improve, make changes if we work together for all of us and for both parties.

I used a tabloid format for my first posting for the same reason as the tabloids do it. Look at it now and see how many have joined in and read the postings on this thread because of the heading. Breaking barriers and be different can often be an effective way to achieve what you wish for. The old way is not always the best!

Kind regards

Maria

Forgive me, Maria, but like many of your other ill-considered statements that assertion is very misleading. What do you mean by "does not cover the rest of the world"? EN 15038 certification is available in the USA, for example, and in all Arab contries, just to name but a few. An international committee has been selected to create an ISO standard for translation and interpreting services. ISO / TC 37 / SC 2 / WG 6 “Translation and Interpretation Processes”. It will unify the European EN 15038 Standard, the American ASTM Standard and the Chinese Standard into a unique ISO standard. It is at present in committee stage or beyond.

But we can make a start. EN 15038 is accepted by most of the world already. I do not know in which countries EN 15038 certification is definitely not available but I will try to find a list somewhere. In the meantime, I believe that what I claimed holds - if you do work for a translation agency that is unable or unwilling to obtain EN 15038 certification then you are taking a considerable risk.

If the agency happens to be located in a country that refuses to recognize EN standards then the risk is likely to be even greater but certainly not less. In the interim stage, I would be willing to accept the written assertion of an agency that although EN 15038 certification is not available at their location, they guarantee their compliance with all its provisions.

I have amended my TC profile with the following: "I am prepared to work only for translation agencies that are EN 15038-certified or guarantee that they fully conform to all the requirements of EN 15038."

Derek 

This is a list of "Quality-Oriented Translation Companies" and Practical aspects of EN 15038

I have only done a cursory check, but the site looks interesting:

http://www.eutecert.eu/?s=136

Especially as it also features at least one nonpayer and some slow payers ...

I agree with you that "Quality-Oriented" is not the same EN 15038 Certified - so how about you doing a new search then? Help us find the real list that Derek mentioned. 

Nanna