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Posted:
Monday, February 06, 2012 11:34 GMT
Post #242631—in reply to #242620
+0-0
Bruce Rodger
Member
25
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 35
3
Joined: Monday, February 16, 2009
Location: Brazil
 
RE: America, America...

I would really love to join you guys in this one, but I am just overloaded with work at the moment.

However, just throwing out a few ideas: I think the crux of the problem here is i) humanity's inability to cope with our own ignorance and the inconsistencies that this throws up; and ii) our tendency to deal in absolutes.

The notion that every single word of a translated version of a book written by people and subsequently revised by people (who modified or excluded everything that was inconvenient) was dictated by a higher deity is patently absurd, especially since it is still full of inconsistencies (the worst of which is the contrast between the bloodthirsty and barbaric history of the Jewish peoples - Old Testament - and the teachings of Christ - New Testament). That said book was used as a justification for persecution, oppression and slaughter is another serious inconsistency. On the other hand, there have been many people over the ages who have done wonderful work in the name of "God". If that is what inspired them, who are we to complain and ridicule it. At least I have yet to come across a better recipe for  harmonious human interaction than "Treat others as you would be treated by them". Furthermore, faith is a very powerful force and miracles do happen - we just don't know how to explain them; which is what makes them miracles

The fact is that we do not have perfect knowledge, which would require a full comprehension of the workings of the universe and the destiny of every single molecule in it (yes, I realize that is old science and that we already know there are far smaller things at work, but let it be a metaphor). Indeed, we are probably at least as far from that as the first cavemen were from today's top scientists, despite our arrogant conceit that we are always on the threshold of cracking open the universe's secrets. Just look at the progress over the last century, despite supposedly intelligent people back then thinking they'd discovered just about all there was to discover! Have you noticed that the universe seems to get bigger every time we think we're close to defining its limits? That's one possible definition of infinity!

I would contend that we don't even know what God is, so who is to say there is no God. If somebody suggests it is a white bearded old man who lives in the stratosphere then there are clear limits to our ability to accept this argument. But if one defines it as the as yet not understood force that binds the universe together then surely that is an argument everyone can accept. Is it a benevolent force? That is more difficult to swallow, and yet this world is a pretty wonderful place where the most incredible things happen, so perhaps the best answer is "I don't know". Why do we find it so hard to live with that???

That's all I can do for now - duty calls



[Edited by Bruce Rodger on Monday, February 06, 2012 11:39]

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Posted:
Monday, February 06, 2012 11:46 GMT
Post #242633—in reply to #242631
+0-0
Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: Monday, February 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: America, America...

Originally written by Bruce Rodger on February 6, 2012 11:34 AM

At least I have yet to come across a better recipe for  harmonious human interaction than "Treat others as you would be treated by them".

Here is something equally powerful:

Originally quoted by Jacek K. on February 5, 2012 11:41 AM in Post #242588

The Perfect Way is only difficult
for those who pick and choose;
Do not like, do not dislike;
all will then be clear.
Make a hairbreadth difference,
and Heaven and Earth are set apart;
If you want the truth to stand clear before you,
never be for or against.
The struggle between “for” and “against”
is the mind’s worst disease.

 

Originally written by Bruce Rodger on February 6, 2012 11:34 AM

The fact is that we do not have perfect knowledge, which would require a full comprehension of the workings of the universe and the destiny of every single molecule in it. Indeed, we are probably at least as far from that as the first cavemen were from today's top scientists, despite our arrogant conceit that we are always on the threshold of cracking open the universe's secrets. Just look at the progress over the last century, despite supposedly intelligent people back then thinking they'd discovered just about all there was to discover! Have you noticed that the universe seems to get bigger every time we think we're close to defining its limits? That's one possible definition of infinity!

yes

...so perhaps the best answer is "I don't know". Why do we find it so hard to live with that???

Because

(a) They don't teach Socrates enough in schools;

(b) Books like the one from Post #242588 are not downloadable for free and thus will never be tweeted around.

Keep up the good work, Bruce!



[Edited by Jacek K. on Monday, February 06, 2012 11:55]

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Posted:
Monday, February 06, 2012 12:12 GMT
Post #242635—in reply to #242633
+0-0
Bruce Rodger
Member
25
Mother tongue: English
Posts: 35
3
Joined: Monday, February 16, 2009
Location: Brazil
 
RE: America, America...

You quotation reads a bit too much like "don't have any opinions" for my liking, although I believe I do understand the intention behind it :o)



[Edited by Bruce Rodger on Monday, February 06, 2012 13:39]

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Posted:
Monday, February 06, 2012 12:31 GMT
Post #242636—in reply to #242635
+0-0
Jacek K.
TC Master
Mother tongue: Polish
Joined: Monday, February 15, 2010
Location: Poland
 
RE: America, America...

Originally written by Bruce Rodger on February 6, 2012 12:12 PM

 "don't have any opinions" ...

Do, but don't cross swords over them before having looked at them from all the possible angles as it may then turn out that crossing swords (also literally) will not result in any new quality.

It's like with your physicists or astronomers thinking that they've discovered just about all there was to discover and suddenly hearing (with envy) about their colleagues having pushed the limits of the world even farther.

All of us have opinions automatically, whether we like it or not and whether we voice them or not, so "don't have any opinions" taken literally would make no sense, unless one means "Die!"



[Edited by Jacek K. on Monday, February 06, 2012 12:37]

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